Artistic Gymnastics 2020 Discussion Thread

[Olympian1010 7,937]

45 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Eythora Thorsdottir has reacted disappointed at the suspension of the Dutch women's team: "We are being punished for something coaches did in years before." 

 

In which she does have a point, it's no use to keep the athletes themselves away from chances and competitions they very much want to appear in.

Yes, I will concede as well that suspending the athletes from competition is unfair.
 

I feel like the outline for dealing with abuse I laid out a page or two before could be applied well here. There should be a through investigation into the claims made by the athletes, during which the coach in question should be suspended for the team for the time being, and the gymnasts involved offered counseling. The Dutch NF should have meeting with all coaches to discuss what type of coaching practices are acceptable/ethical (even though it seems like the other coaches are fine). The Dutch NF should have a meeting with all the gymnasts to discuss their concerns, thoughts, questions on the issue at hand, and on coaching in general. Once the investigation is finished, everyone should be made aware of it’s findings. If it is found that the coach was abusive towards any athletes, then proper punishment should be given and legal action taken if necessary. If the investigation doesn’t find any wrongdoing, then the coach should be reinstated.

[Grassmarket 3,362]

7 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Yes, I will concede as well that suspending the athletes from competition is unfair.
 

I feel like the outline for dealing with abuse I laid out a page or two before could be applied well here. There should be a through investigation into the claims made by the athletes, during which the coach in question should be suspended for the team for the time being, and the gymnasts involved offered counseling. The Dutch NF should have meeting with all coaches to discuss what type of coaching practices are acceptable/ethical (even though it seems like the other coaches are fine). The Dutch NF should have a meeting with all the gymnasts to discuss their concerns, thoughts, questions on the issue at hand, and on coaching in general. Once the investigation is finished, everyone should be made aware of it’s findings. If it is found that the coach was abusive towards any athletes, then proper punishment should be given and legal action taken if necessary. If the investigation doesn’t find any wrongdoing, then the coach should be reinstated.

Looking forward to the Dutch return to top-level gymnastics at the 2032 Olympics, then.

[Olympian1010 7,937]

2 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

Looking forward to the Dutch return to top-level gymnastics at the 2032 Olympics, then.

That entire process I outlined should easily take less than a month to complete ?

[Grassmarket 3,362]

13 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

That entire process I outlined should easily take less than a month to complete ?

No way.  All coaches concerned are going to need legal representation for a start.  There will be depositions, cross-examination, witnesses, appeals, arbitration......it will take years., 

[Olympian1010 7,937]

10 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

No way.  All coaches concerned are going to need legal representation for a start.  There will be depositions, cross-examination, witnesses, appeals, arbitration......it will take years., 

I didn’t set it up as a legal matter. I set it up in terms of an internal coaching matter. I would only make it a legal matter if the coach’s conduct was in violation of national laws.

[Grassmarket 3,362]

12 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

I didn’t set it up as a legal matter. I set it up in terms of an internal coaching matter. I would only make it a legal matter if the coach’s conduct was in violation of national laws.

But the coaches have their reputations to defend, that is their entire career.  To be accused of abusing their athletes is professional suicide.  They will have no choice but to lawyer up: in fact, it would be grotesquely unfair not to allow them to defend themselves.

[Olympian1010 7,937]

3 minutes ago, Grassmarket said:

But the coaches have their reputations to defend, that is their entire career.  To be accused of abusing their athletes is professional suicide.  They will have no choice but to lawyer up: in fact, it would be grotesquely unfair not to allow them to defend themselves.

I never said they couldn’t appeal a suspension or ban. 

 

To be honest though, I’m more concerned about the health of athletes, than the career of a coach.

[thiago_simoes 1,421]

19 hours ago, Federer91 said:

 

Are they toxic, because of your personal views on the matter or you have private discussions with the Bulgarian girls? Please share your contacts, i would very much like to meet them! Because they have always said the their coaches are like a second mother for them and are grateful for everything they have given them.

 

----

 

Also, about the 20 thing. Don't know about other countries, but here, the statement that the federation/coaches dismiss the girls when the clock turns 20 is also a false accusation. In Tokyo Vladinova will be 27, Taseva almost 24. In Rio, half of the ensemble was 25. In London, Silviya Miteva was 28. Is Bulgaria sending these past their prime athletes, because we don't have anyone better ?!

Point 1: Look at the scandal where Bulgarian coaches were accused of abuse by Swiss gymnasts. Then, the gymnastics federation on Bulgaria, who had absolutely nothing to do with the training in SWITZERLAND, released an official note stating that they believe in the coaches and not in the Swiss gymnasts who accused them. Now, if the gymnastics federation of Bulgaria acts like that regarding a program in a different country -- which they have no involvement with and know nothing about -- it's not hard to imagine what measures they would take to cover up suspicious things in Bulgaria itself. Of course the gymnasts will say everyone is wonderful and whatnot, but let's not forget that Tsvetelina Stoyanova attempted suicide in 2016. The writing is on the wall here, seriously.

Point 2: You see, most of the top nations can safely rely on new talents and their top gymnasts are under 20: just look at Ukraine with Nikolchenko, Belarus with Salos and Harnasko, and Israel with Zelikman, Voronkov and Telegina -- all of them are 19 or younger, and all of them won medals at the latest World Championships. Bulgaria is the only nation with a minimum of relevance to keep sending older gymnasts to the World Championships. I commend this, but I can also see this is a problem when the rest of the world can create great new gymnasts while Bulgaria cannot. I mean, Bulgaria had no medals with individual gymnasts at the 2019 WC. This means that not only younger gymnasts are not good enough, now even the older gymnasts are not good either. Do you really think Bulgaria has someone better to send to the WC? 

[Olympian1010 7,937]

 

[Dnl 691]

23 hours ago, Olympian1010 said:

 

It feels like every sport here has its own F’d up problem, here it’s Sexual abusing other have the infamous Drug abusing I seriously cannot understand it and it’s really pissing me off