Totallympics International Song Contest Discussion

[Olympian1010 7,971]

Just now, dcro said:

This suggestion should only be for the two-member juries, in my opinion.

That’s cool with me as well. And just to clarify, this would be the change I’d vote in favor of at the moment:

”Something else that could remedy that particular problem would to first rank all songs voted for by all members of the jury, and then rank songs according to points gained from a single jury member.”

 

I’d also suggest that receive points from a single jury and reserve status from the other are also given precedence over a song that only gets points from one jury member...

[dcro 10,210]

5 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

That’s cool with me as well. And just to clarify, this would be the change I’d vote in favor of at the moment:

”

Something else that could remedy that particular problem would to first rank all songs voted for by all members of the jury, and then rank songs according to points gained from a single jury member.”

 

I’d also suggest that receive points from a single jury and reserve status from the other are also given precedence over a song that only gets points from one jury member...

Well, that seems pretty extreme. Should 1+1 carry more points than 12+0?

 

Middle ground would be just ensuring that a song which scored from both jurors must be given points from that jury, if not already represented.

 

So, for example, if a song with 5+0 is 12th combined and scheduled to get one (1) point, but there is another song with 2+2, then that other song gets pushed up to earn the final point. If there is another song with 1+1, then both those move up into the points territory, instead of the two lowest-scoring songs which earned points from only one member.

[OlympicIRL 5,532]

1 hour ago, Olympian1010 said:

So it might be time to discuss/vote on amendments to how multi-jury points are tabulated @OlympicIRL

Absolutely, you may put forward your proposal now.

 

29 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

Well my suggestions are for all multi-juries, not just the ones with 4+ members or whatever the last amendment vote was about. 

 

As was decided with the last rule change involving the 4+ member juries, any rule change would be an "opt-in" option. The default option would be the standard set-up with the usual combined process.

 

I think you said your issue about the combined votes was that a nation that was voted by both jury members did not appear in the final cut. Perhaps an option could be added that any nation that was voted by both jury members but did not make the cut would replace the 12th ranked nation (and so on if there is more than one missing in your list... not likely there would be more than one or two anyway).

 

What did you have in mind?

 

 

There is another topic I will discuss next week so we will have a vote on your proposal at the same time.

 

 

[dcro 10,210]

Here is a specific example of the USA votes from the 2020 Annual.

 

Spoiler

Combined Votes:

Slovenia - 19 (8+11) - 12 points

Hungary - 15 (6+9) - 11 points

Greece - 12 (12+0) - 10 points*

Norway - 12 (0+12) - 9 points

India - 11 (11+0) - 8 points

Tunisia - 10 (10+0) - 7 points**

Ireland - 10 (0+10) - 6 points

Australia - 9 (9+0) - 5 points

Slovakia - 8 (3+5) - 4 points

Portugal - 8 (0+8) - 3 points

Ukraine - 7 (0+7) - 2 points**

Canada - 7 (7+0) - 1 point

----------------------------------------------------

China - 6 (5+1)

Brazil - 6 (0+6)

Germany - 4 (4+0)

Israel - 4 (0+4)

Malta - 3 (0+3)

New Zealand - 2 (0+2)

Serbia - 2 (2+0)

Bulgaria - 1 (1+0)

 

* - decided by a random draw

** - decided by reserve lists

 

Under the revised "opt-in" rules, China would be moved up to earn one point instead of Canada (interestingly, this would have narrowed the gap between the winner and the runner-up).

 

Under the more radical rules, China would earn 9 (!) points, which would have almost been enough to win the contest instead... That's too radical for my liking. Revised rules should not be that much different than the standard practice (in a sense that historical outcomes could have been made completely different using them).

[dcro 10,210]

This "opt-in" option opens all kinds of possibilities though.

 

If both jurors agree, they can both rank all 35-ish songs and just go from there. No random draws, no special provisions.

[Olympian1010 7,971]

Well, my other problem with how multi-jury votes are tabulated is the “tie-break decided by random draw.” So for instance, if I give Tunisia 10 points and Dez’s gives them 0, but in turn gives Ireland 10 points while I give them zero, the song which gets higher points in the combined total is decided by random chance. I feel like multi-juries should have the right to decide how those ties are broken. Like if Dez and I can come to mutual agreement about which song deserves 7 in the combined points, and which deserves 6 points then we should be allowed to make that distinction. 

[Olympian1010 7,971]

2 minutes ago, dcro said:

This "opt-in" option opens all kinds of possibilities though.

 

If both jurors agree, they can both rank all 35-ish songs and just go from there. No random draws, no special provisions.

This is another option I brought up to solve both issues I have with the current system in my first post. It’s worth noting that many multi-juries already do a similar process to determine National entry selection.

[hckošice 14,822]

So, no polls ? As traditional single jury, I want vote "C"

[OlympicIRL 5,532]

48 minutes ago, hckošice said:

So, no polls ? As traditional single jury, I want vote "C"

I’ll create the polls this weekend 

[OlympicIRL 5,532]

@Olympian1010 to address your issue of nations not making it into the combined top 12 despite receiving votes from all members of that jury, this is what the opt-in would be:

 

 

Opt-in:

 

Any nation(s) which received points from both national jury members but did not make it into the combined top 12 will automatically be added to the final combined top 12 of that national jury. This will be achieved by removing the lowest ranked nation(s) in the combined top 12 which received points from just 1 jury member. The removed nation(s) will then become the highest ranking reserves.

 

 

Your second issue about wanting to scrap random draws within your national jury, how did you want that to happen? What are the logistics of doing so?