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Werloc

Speed Skating 2015 - 2016 Discussion Thread

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15 minutes ago, Pavlo said:

yes, but there is sth like "Russian" sport and maybe only such a ban would help. There are cases when some feds are excluded, often because of some formal pressure by goverments (like in football) when players are also innocent. Tough call  but sth should be done

Definitely a tough call. 

It's a little annoying now to see Dutch former world champion Erben Wennemars act all surprised about Kulizhnikov...in the past 2 seasons he was always talking about "the past is the past and now he is just great because his technique is fantastic" :d 
Noone is doubting his fantastic technique, but come on, everyone who is following speed skating is already saying for 2 years they don't trust him (I've always said that and so has basically everyone else I discuss with online) :lol:

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well, massive doping in Russia takes away medal chances from many clean athletes for years, this is so unfair. I think we can today say that apart from Russia - Kenya, Jamaica, US, Turkey, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Northern Korea are "suspected" too (over average let`s say). But as for now only Russia confirmed it on such scale and shall they be banned? Why not if it all is to have any sense

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56 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

Definitely a tough call. 

It's a little annoying now to see Dutch former world champion Erben Wennemars act all surprised about Kulizhnikov...in the past 2 seasons he was always talking about "the past is the past and now he is just great because his technique is fantastic" :d 
Noone is doubting his fantastic technique, but come on, everyone who is following speed skating is already saying for 2 years they don't trust him (I've always said that and so has basically everyone else I discuss with online) :lol:

Of course you always knew it, thats easy to say when noone can check it. I have always sayed that he is dirty and again i was right, i am just surprised that he was stupid enough to get caught so quick. I still remember you cheering for him to become the first man to break 34s, but maybe it was all just a dream ... :p

Edited by OlympicsFan

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17 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

Of course you always knew it, thats easy to say when noone can check it. I have always sayed that he is dirty and again i was right, i am just surprised that he was stupid enough to get caught so quick. I still remember you cheering for him to become the first man to break 34s, but maybe it was all just a dream ... :p

If there is one thing I am absolutely sure of, it is that me and a million of Dutch (and probably international) speed skating fans have said Kulizhnikov is not to be trusted since the very beginning of his domination :d 

I think you remember it a little wrong. I definitely talked about him breaking 34 because it was a historic moment in speed skating and it was clear that the chance was very big he would do it. I don't know how I put it, but I could have said something about mixed feelings: 1. I wish Wotherspoon would still have the record but 2. seeing the 34s being broken live was a historic moment. 

But what I can absolutely guarantee is that I have had the same opinion as almost everyone about Kulizhnikov since his return and sudden domination: don't trust it. And yes, I am sure I have also said something about his technique, because doping or no doping, I still think he has a beautiful technique (calm, but incredibly strong). 

 

 

Edited by heywoodu

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18 hours ago, Pavlo said:

so why it got forbidden? why is it used if it is placebo? :), why in Russia?

and why wasn't it forbidden earlier since it appeared in 1970s? some countries even don't admit meldronat's efficiency and don't sell it because it's useless. well, it has some effect which matches its low price, that is why it is popular in Russia among athletes who have heart problems or want to recover quicker after trainings.

WADA's logic to forbid meldronat was that people who take it might also take other drugs. well, it looks like people who have knives at home might be killers. I don't mind that mildronat is forbidden, but the appearing cases just show how stupid athletes are and don't notice that something gets forbidden. 

imagine that aspirine gets forbidden. i'm sure that many athletes around the world would make mistake and continue taking it. and they will be concidered as cheaters because they took a medicine a month after it became illegal

 

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1 hour ago, vovanA said:

and why wasn't it forbidden earlier since it appeared in 1970s? some countries even don't admit meldronat's efficiency and don't sell it because it's useless. well, it has some effect which matches its low price, that is why it is popular in Russia among athletes who have heart problems or want to recover quicker after trainings.

WADA's logic to forbid meldronat was that people who take it might also take other drugs. well, it looks like people who have knives at home might be killers. I don't mind that mildronat is forbidden, but the appearing cases just show how stupid athletes are and don't notice that something gets forbidden. 

imagine that aspirine gets forbidden. i'm sure that many athletes around the world would make mistake and continue taking it. and they will be concidered as cheaters because they took a medicine a month after it became illegal

 

hmm, but they are pros, they make a living out of it. So even if they don`t know that it got forbidden - 1st it makes them really foolish ;p, 2nd - lack of knowledge isn`t an excuse. From 1st Jan it got forbidden and means DOPING, i think that quicker recovery after trainings is a doping, maybe this is dangerous, maybe meldronat helps to hide other drugs.

But from formal point of view those athletes just have been caught POSITIVE. Russian sport is probably the most "dirty" now and it only got worse even if it was only stupidity.

Hmmm, and i can`t believe Sharapova`s whole pro-crue missed such a change in regulations. Another question, what if Aga Radwańska and all other tennis players used it to recover after training or matches during GS or OG? Just asking ;), and maybe let`s not make heart-ill people out of great athletes. People with serious heart problems just can`t be pro athletes :)

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2 hours ago, vovanA said:

and why wasn't it forbidden earlier since it appeared in 1970s? some countries even don't admit meldronat's efficiency and don't sell it because it's useless. well, it has some effect which matches its low price, that is why it is popular in Russia among athletes who have heart problems or want to recover quicker after trainings.

WADA's logic to forbid meldronat was that people who take it might also take other drugs. well, it looks like people who have knives at home might be killers. I don't mind that mildronat is forbidden, but the appearing cases just show how stupid athletes are and don't notice that something gets forbidden. 

imagine that aspirine gets forbidden. i'm sure that many athletes around the world would make mistake and continue taking it. and they will be concidered as cheaters because they took a medicine a month after it became illegal

 

and...if it is a placebo.....how Kulizhnikov got so powerful......after taking meaningless placebo...? ;) can you answer this?

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20 minutes ago, Pavlo said:

and...if it is a placebo.....how Kulizhnikov got so powerful......after taking meaningless placebo...? ;) can you answer this?

I still think Kulizhnikov is definitely not only good because of doping, he really does have a great technique. But yeah, clearly his technique isn't the only thing :d 

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It appears the 2018 Olympics has a chance to have some exotic countries such as Colombia, Spain and India competing (all three have at least one athlete who has met the standard from Sochi).

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5 hours ago, intoronto said:

It appears the 2018 Olympics has a chance to have some exotic countries such as Colombia, Spain and India competing (all three have at least one athlete who has met the standard from Sochi).

Spain had Antonio Gomez Fernandez in the 70's/80's, who was extremely popular in the Netherlands for reasons like the way he skated the turns (only after a while he learned how to actually make a decent turn), but he never competed at the Olympics :p

 

Pedro Causil is going really well in the past year and a half or so for Colombia, I have high hopes of him being a decent performer in Pyeongchang. Apart from them and India, also Brazil is having a young talent living in Japan, but he isn't near Olympic standards yet. 

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