Shooting CAT American Championships 2018

[Dunadan 1,103]

As usual in these continental events, a few quotas for low level shooters who won't be competitive at the Olympics 

[JoshMartini007 2,769]

4 hours ago, Dunadan said:

As usual in these continental events, a few quotas for low level shooters who won't be competitive at the Olympics 

 

To be fair these athletes would have all been able to qualify if continental quotas didn't exist. There are 29 quota places for each event...

[Dunadan 1,103]

23 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

 

To be fair these athletes would have all been able to qualify if continental quotas didn't exist. 

I don't agree at all, much better shooters won't be able to qualify.

Adriana Ruano Oliva has one appearance in a global event (World Cup) and she finished 45th out of 45. The Mexican is young but his only result this year is very bad. I don't think that these guys would be able to qualify through World Cups or World Championships, where you need to be at least once much closer to the top to gain a quota.

[JoshMartini007 2,769]

50 minutes ago, Dunadan said:

I don't agree at all, much better shooters won't be able to qualify.

Adriana Ruano Oliva has one appearance in a global event (World Cup) and she finished 45th out of 45. The Mexican is young but his only result this year is very bad. I don't think that these guys would be able to qualify through World Cups or World Championships, where you need to be at least once much closer to the top to gain a quota.

 

Not everyone can afford to go to Europe/Asia to compete. If you look at their performances here, it's consistent with what you'd expect a top 30 athlete would get. Is there a chance that they would miss out in a non-continental qualification system? Perhaps, but you could say the same about anyone who isn't consistently in the top 15.

[LDOG 2,472]

This sport has in each event an elite of 5, 6 people that do well in most tournaments but after them there are 20-25 people that perform once in a while and then have average results. Some of them will qualify, some not... This sport is all luck beyond a certain point.

[Dunadan 1,103]

32 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

Is there a chance that they would miss out in a non-continental qualification system? 

Yes and I'd say this chance is >90% for the two shooters I mentioned.

Top 15? These guys aren't close to the level needed to get one top 15 (that would be enough, there are very few people who are consistently in top 15).And not all World Cups are in Europe/Asia...Guadalajara 2018

https://www.issf-sports.org/competitions/results/detail.ashx?cshipid=2390&resultkey=Q10000_I_0503181000.1.TR125.0

102 for the Mexican (117 needed for a top 15).

[JoshMartini007 2,769]

44 minutes ago, Dunadan said:

Yes and I'd say this chance is >90% for the two shooters I mentioned.

Top 15? These guys aren't close to the level needed to get one top 15 (that would be enough, there are very few people who are consistently in top 15).And not all World Cups are in Europe/Asia...Guadalajara 2018

https://www.issf-sports.org/competitions/results/detail.ashx?cshipid=2390&resultkey=Q10000_I_0503181000.1.TR125.0

102 for the Mexican (117 needed for a top 15).

 

I didn't say they were top 15, just that once you are outside of the top 15 you aren't guaranteed a spot in a 29(+double starters) athlete field. It's also unfair to use the 102, especially since he got 118 here, more than enough to qualify in an international competition. Of course comparing two different events is bad for shotgun events as weather plays a big factor.

 

Pan America may be weaker than Asia and Europe in shooting, but we aren't so weak that our best shooters wouldn't qualify to the Olympics without continental quotas, especially since none of the World Cup events have occurred so outside of the 4 USA quotas won at the World Championships we are more or less at full strength. Now quotas won at the Pan American Games may be a different story, but the Olympics does want universality.

[Dunadan 1,103]

51 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

 

I didn't say they were top 15, just that once you are outside of the top 15 you aren't guaranteed a spot in a 29(+double starters) athlete field. It's also unfair to use the 102, especially since he got 118 here, more than enough to qualify in an international competition. Of course comparing two different events is bad for shotgun events as weather plays a big factor.

 

Pan America may be weaker than Asia and Europe in shooting, but we aren't so weak that our best shooters wouldn't qualify to the Olympics without continental quotas, especially since none of the World Cup events have occurred so outside of the 4 USA quotas won at the World Championships we are more or less at full strength. Now quotas won at the Pan American Games may be a different story, but the Olympics does want universality

 

No doubt about that, but some of those who gained the quota yesterday (Guatemala and Mexico) are clearly not the best Panamerican shooters, they just got lucky in the final against better shooters like Carroll...and they reached the final only because the average level is very low. Without continental quotas Carroll would (and will) qualify, Ruano Oliva would not because she would never be close to the top 6, 10, 15 (or whatever you consider to be the minimum result to obtain at least once in order to gain a quota) in a global event.

[JoshMartini007 2,769]

13 minutes ago, Dunadan said:

 

No doubt about that, but some of those who gained the quota yesterday (Guatemala and Mexico) are clearly not the best Panamerican shooters, they just got lucky in the final against better shooters like Carroll...and they reached the final only because the average level is very low. Without continental quotas Carroll would (and will) qualify, Ruano Oliva would not because she would never be close to the top 6, 10, 15 (or whatever you consider to be the minimum result to obtain at least once in order to gain a quota) in a global event.

 

I think you are underestimating them because they are among the best from the continent. Besides if you say they were "lucky" then what's stopping them from being "lucky" again? Again, I'm not saying they are favoured to win a medal, but to say they have single digit percent chance of qualifying as the 25th-29th best athlete is wrong. Especially in a sport like shooting.

[LDOG 2,472]

There will be some fluke results at World cups too, this sport is 50% about how a shooter wakes up in the given day. There is no way to avoid some weak shooters to qualify unless you implement some ranking system to award ALL the quotas.