Athletics EAA European Championships 2024

[Faramir 515]

2 minutes ago, Epic Failure said:

If I buy a ticket to an event with limited capacity and then decide the week before that I want to do something else, that's on me. I lose my entry fee but that's my decision. If there is an entry fee for this, I fully support GBR being fined for it.

 

What you are advocating is that I should be additionally punished for doing so. That's ridiculous.

 

If someone else wants to go in my place, I should be able to sell my ticket, as most things let you do these days. Or the venue can decide to let someone else in if they see that there is space. Which is what I'm suggesting should happen.

 

 

Buying a ticket doesn't seem a good comparison to me. Here we have a small and previously set number of places, and a ranking of (many more) people to fill those places. It's like applying to a university with few places or to enter a public contest for hiring new personnel... there's always some sort punishment if you are selected and accept instead of declining in time so that your spot can be reallocated to the next best ranked candidate.  Having to pay and being bumped down the rankings or limited in regard to your future applications is not uncommon.

[Noorderling29 238]

We have our Nat Champs before major championships, but they are most certainly not trials.

 

 

[Epic Failure 364]

7 minutes ago, Faramir said:

Buying a ticket doesn't seem a good comparison to me. Here we have a small and previously set number of places, and a ranking of (many more) people to fill those places. It's like applying to a university with few places or to enter a public contest for hiring new personnel... there's always some sort punishment if you are selected and accept instead of declining in time so that your spot can be reallocated to the next best ranked candidate.  Having to pay and being bumped down the rankings or limited in regard to your future applications is not uncommon.

I've never known someone who accepted a job offer and then turned it down to be actually punished for doing so. Sure, that employer might not offer them a future job but that's a different matter. If you want to have a system where you get banned from a future EC having withdrawn at the last minute, maybe that's a way forward. Banning someone from other events that aren't ECs seems weird.

 

Frankly, I'm fine with some sort of fine for the national federation, as it is them who are in control of the entries. Just not the individual athlete.

 

Personally, I still think that the easiest - and best - solution is a standby list. That's what a university would do. That's what someone advertising a job would have.

 

Again, I think that there has to be a degree of reasonableness here. We're still 3 days before any event starts, let alone a specific event that might happen later in the programme. There's nowhere in Europe that you couldn't get to Rome in 3 days from. There's no good reason to not have a back up list.

 

Hell, make the withdrawing federation pay the travel and hotel cost of the replacement athlete. Problem solved.

[EselTheDonkey 838]

It can only be trials, if more than three athletes are qualified in a discipline. The UK is indeed one of the very few countries, where this is possible in many events, though ironically at least right now not in men's 400 metres. Only Hudson-Smith and Dobson are qualified at the moment. 

[Epic Failure 364]

5 minutes ago, EselTheDonkey said:

It can only be trials, if more than three athletes are qualified in a discipline. The UK is indeed one of the very few countries, where this is possible in many events, though ironically at least right now not in men's 400 metres. Only Hudson-Smith and Dobson are qualified at the moment. 

But how do you know in advance? Like, to use GBR as an example.

 

Dobson and MHS are the only 400m runners qualified as of *right now*. But the qualification window runs until June 30th. The GBR champs/trials are 28-29th. Suppose another 3 athletes were to run the qualification time at those champs, or before it. How would you decide the team?

 

For GBR the system has been top 2 at trials/champs go no matter what, as long as they have the qualifying time. And a 3rd discretionary spot that can be applied where the selectors want it (in case of injury at the trials etc).

 

I'm just puzzled about how other nations do it if you don't decide it based on performance at a championship/trial - are you all just writing your athletes off?

[Faramir 515]

18 minutes ago, Epic Failure said:

've never known someone who accepted a job offer and then turned it down to be actually punished for doing so

either my English is so bad that you understood something like this or you are misinterpreting it on purpose...

 

19 minutes ago, Epic Failure said:

Personally, I still think that the easiest - and best - solution is a standby list. That's what a university would do.

yes, until a certain date.

[Faramir 515]

8 minutes ago, Epic Failure said:

 

I'm just puzzled about how other nations do it if you don't decide it based on performance at a championship/trial - are you all just writing your athletes off?

- best result in a certain period or in a certain set of competitions;
- a combination of best results (ranking);
- decision by "coach", "technical director", "committee" - whoever is responsible.

[EselTheDonkey 838]

13 minutes ago, Epic Failure said:

 

 

I'm just puzzled about how other nations do it if you don't decide it based on performance at a championship/trial - are you all just writing your athletes off?

We nominate those, who are qualified by standard or the ranking. And for the vast majority of countries, these are less than three per event. So why trials, if there's a limited pool of options anyway? 

 

As for Germany in a discipline with more than three qualified athletes (right now only Discus Throw women):

 

1. Standard. And being the best German and have a top 4 position at the European Championships.

2. Standard and being German Champion. If the German Champion already qualifies through the European Championships, than the second at the German Championships qualifies.

3. Standard, going by best result with only standards from 2024 counting.

4. Standard, going by best result with standards from 2023 counting as well.

5. World Ranking by position

Edited June 3, 2024 by EselTheDonkey

[Epic Failure 364]

7 minutes ago, Faramir said:

either my English is so bad that you understood something like this or you are misinterpreting it on purpose...

 

yes, until a certain date.

Yes but what I'm disagreeing with is where you are saying the certain date should be.

 

To use your job example, if you accept a job offer but decide the day before you are due to start you don't want it anymore, you won't get punished for that decision. You just no longer have the job. I don't see why that should be different for athletes.

 

For clarity, I'm saying that an athlete pulling out 3 days before these champs is absolutely doing it in time. There should be no repercussions to that athlete for doing so. If there are *any* repercussions at all - and I'm not convinced there should be - they should be to the federation to cover the cost of travel for the replacement.

[Epic Failure 364]

10 minutes ago, EselTheDonkey said:

We nominate those, who are qualified by standard or the ranking. And for the vast majority of countries, these are less than three per event. So why trials, if there's a limited pool of options anyway? 

 

As for Germany in a discipline with more than three qualified athletes (right now only Discus Throw women):

 

1. Standard. And being the best German and have a top 4 position at the European Championships.

2. Standard and being German Champion. If the German Champion already qualifies through the European Championships, than the second at the German Championships qualifies.

3. Standard, going by best result with only standards from 2024 counting.

4. Standard, going by best result with standards from 2023 counting as well.

5. World Ranking by position

Right, so the German Championship performance can influence it? That's basically the same as the GB system then.