Athletics 2020 Discussion Thread

[OlympicsFan 859]

4 hours ago, Monzanator said:

 

Makes me wonder how long until Femke Bol replaces Dafne Schippers as the new Dutch #1 in athletics?

 

Good thing she's not Russian, otherwise we'd have doping accusations running around now

I think it is pointless to talk about doping based on progression or nationality, I think it’s best to just assume that everyone who can compete for medals on a global stage in certain sports is doped. Personally I am only interested in two things:

1) How can you make sure that it is equally difficult to get away with doping everywhere?

2) What makes the doping program of certain nations (GB, the Netherlands) superior? China and Russia are much bigger than the Netherlands and put much more emphasis on success in sports, but still they never got as good at doping as the Netherlands, so you have to assume that Dutch scientists are doing a brilliant job and I would love to know what methods they developed to enhance the performance of their athletes that much.

About Bol: Of course you have to be suspicious about her progression, but at least it is more believable than the progression of Sara Slott Petersen who suddenly improved from 55.6 to 53.9 in 2015 at the age of 28.

[Monzanator 4,526]

1 minute ago, OlympicsFan said:

I think it is pointless to talk about doping based on progression or nationality, I think it’s best to just assume that everyone who can compete for medals on a global stage in certain sports is doped. Personally I am only interested in two things:

1) How can you make sure that it is equally difficult to get away with doping everywhere?

2) What makes the doping program of certain nations (GB, the Netherlands) superior? China and Russia are much bigger than the Netherlands and put much more emphasis on success in sports, but still they never got as good at doping as the Netherlands, so you have to assume that Dutch scientists are doing a brilliant job and I would love to know what methods they developed to enhance the performance of their athletes that much.

 

I'll wait for another ARD investigation to find the answers you're looking for

[heywoodu 15,174]

7 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

I'll wait for another ARD investigation to find the answers you're looking for

 

Like they'll go as deep into Germany as they did into Kenya or Russia  

[Monzanator 4,526]

2 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

 

Like they'll go as deep into Germany as they did into Kenya or Russia  

 

That's exactly my point. There are far more suitable whipping boys like Russia and Kenya for the Western world to spend their money on the anti-doping crusade

[heywoodu 15,174]

1 minute ago, Monzanator said:

 

That's exactly my point. There are far more suitable whipping boys like Russia and Kenya for the Western world to spend their money on the anti-doping crusade

Plus easier and more obvious as a whole.

[OlympicsFan 859]

1 minute ago, Monzanator said:

 

I'll wait for another ARD investigation to find the answers you're looking for

I absolutely don’t see that happening, it is not difficult to find dirt on nations like Ethiopia, Kenya or Russia, but the Netherlands or GB are way too smart to be caught red-handed. 

[Monzanator 4,526]

4 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

I absolutely don’t see that happening, it is not difficult to find dirt on nations like Ethiopia, Kenya or Russia, but the Netherlands or GB are way too smart to be caught red-handed. 

 

Yes, they are but there are smoke signals to be observed. Bradley Wiggins has completely fallen off the face of the Earth after his "mysterious jiffy bag" case became public, British Athletics is cleaning house like crazy to cut ties with the Salazar/Farah NOP era and even Chris Froome has been released by the Ineos Evil Empire. In normal circumstances they'd do anything to get Froome that 5th TdF victory that would tie him with the legends but apparently juice is not worth the squeeze and Team Sky/Ineos seems to be living on borrowed time for a while now. Shit might yet hit the fan and I won't be surprised by it one bit.

[OlympicsFan 859]

4 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

That's exactly my point. There are far more suitable whipping boys like Russia and Kenya for the Western world to spend their money on the anti-doping crusade

I am not surprised that you are confused, we all know that things work differently in Poland. Let me help you: The difference is that in western nations things like that usually get out because there is independent media, on the other hand in the countries you mentioned things like that usually don’t get out unless foreign media shines a light on it. In some countries politics might be able to tell media to go on a crusade, but that’s not how it usually works in the west. The outrage isn’t necessarily about the amount of doping in certain nations, but about how easy it is in certain nations to dope (creating an unlevel playing field) and the fact that the doping program is often coordinated by the state. It is impossible to eliminate doping but you have to give both the athletes (paying back all the prize money with interest rates) and the countries (if more than x athletes are caught within a certain period than that country gets banned from the Olympics) incentives not to cheat.

[Monzanator 4,526]

14 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

I am not surprised that you are confused, we all know that things work differently in Poland. Let me help you: The difference is that in western nations things like that usually get out because there is independent media, on the other hand in the countries you mentioned things like that usually don’t get out unless foreign media shines a light on it. In some countries politics might be able to tell media to go on a crusade, but that’s not how it usually works in the west. The outrage isn’t necessarily about the amount of doping in certain nations, but about how easy it is in certain nations to dope (creating an unlevel playing field) and the fact that the doping program is often coordinated by the state. It is impossible to eliminate doping but you have to give both the athletes (paying back all the prize money with interest rates) and the countries (if more than x athletes are caught within a certain period than that country gets banned from the Olympics) incentives not to cheat.

 

I admire Gerhard Schroeder more than Angela Merkel given how he gave up politics to boost his account with Russian gas money rather than Frau Merkel trying to "fix Europe" for all those years. Even independent media can't do anything about big politics joining forces with big money. Doping scandals come and go, big money always stays 

[OlympicsFan 859]

2 hours ago, Monzanator said:

 

I admire Gerhard Schroeder more than Angela Merkel given how he gave up politics to boost his account with Russian gas money rather than Frau Merkel trying to "fix Europe" for all those years. Even independent media can't do anything about big politics joining forces with big money. Doping scandals come and go, big money always stays 

So what exactly is your point and what does it have to do with my previous comment?

I find it interesting that

a) You admire Schröder for giving up politics to earn a shitload of money (although Merkel killed his political career before that)

b) You admire Merkel

c) You think that Merkel is actually trying to „fix“ Europe

None of this has anything to do with athletics, so maybe we should wrap this up.