Team GB Debrief

[Timezone 27]

  On 8/18/2024 at 8:00 PM, mpjmcevoy said:

GB had that for 20 years : track cycling and a lesser extent rowing. The rest of the world has caught up. GBR can never hope to have the sort of one sport dominance that China has in Table tennis - the sport is an absolute obsession in china, and they have the guts of a billion and a half people.  They are also brilliant at diving, but I genuinely don't believe that is unassailable - it used to be the USA

 

Obviously if classic British pub sports like snooker or darts where in, they would be perennial winners and medalists. But they ain't.

 

GB has always been a 'jack of all trades' sports nation, not least because it codified so many of the sports. Very few nations have the 'spred' of medals that GB does - really only USA and China, frankly. Some nations historically punch above their weight - Australia and Netherlands, notably - but that is often down to a kind of ruthlessness in targeting, and other cultural issues.

 

There are a few sports I believe GBR should be better at than they seem to be in an Olympic context - Sevens, most obviously, but also Archery, Badminton, Flatwater Canoe and Judo. some we seem to overachieve in - We are usually competitive in Shotgun despite a gun ban, Slalom canoe, and latterly gymnastics. And there are some sports with lots of medals that we seem to have little or no interest in whatsoever - Wrestling the most obvious, but also fencing and of course the team sports - water polo, volleyball, handball and most bizarrely basketball.

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Swimming should be where most of resources are put towards offers 30 plus medals also unlike athletics where fast twitch fibres are that important. If Australia can win 7 golds medals no reason why Team GB cannot. 

[mpjmcevoy 362]

  On 8/19/2024 at 10:15 PM, Timezone said:

Swimming should be where most of resources are put towards offers 30 plus medals also unlike athletics where fast twitch fibres are that important. If Australia can win 7 golds medals no reason why Team GB cannot. 

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There are more Olympic size pools in Melbourne, as I understand it, than in the entire UK. In addition, because of Australian weather, they are cheaper to build because they can be outdoors, and swimming is a huge part of the culture - indeed, only the NCAA college model allows USA to keep up.

 

To be frank, the way GB became a cycling power was little short of miraculous, but it was ruthlessly based on the original understanding that track cycling was low hang fruit, and the good luck of the Manchester Velodrome.

 

Australia has the culture. America has the NCAA. China has the numbers, the state planning and who knows what. The Russia had plenty of who knows what.

 

In that context, GBR's doing ok. They've quietly become essentially the number 2 diving nation in the world, the only nation to deny China in the last three cycles, They've picked up an artistic swimming medal by the luck of fate bringing thee two daughters of two mothers together. They've picked up 5 medals and been unlucky it wasn't a few more.

 

I would say that Jr results have tailed off a bit in recent years, and too many, especially the girls seem to plateau. But we aren't going to catch Australia, hoss.

[Timezone 27]

  On 8/20/2024 at 12:23 AM, mpjmcevoy said:

There are more Olympic size pools in Melbourne, as I understand it, than in the entire UK. In addition, because of Australian weather, they are cheaper to build because they can be outdoors, and swimming is a huge part of the culture - indeed, only the NCAA college model allows USA to keep up.

 

To be frank, the way GB became a cycling power was little short of miraculous, but it was ruthlessly based on the original understanding that track cycling was low hang fruit, and the good luck of the Manchester Velodrome.

 

Australia has the culture. America has the NCAA. China has the numbers, the state planning and who knows what. The Russia had plenty of who knows what.

 

In that context, GBR's doing ok. They've quietly become essentially the number 2 diving nation in the world, the only nation to deny China in the last three cycles, They've picked up an artistic swimming medal by the luck of fate bringing thee two daughters of two mothers together. They've picked up 5 medals and been unlucky it wasn't a few more.

 

I would say that Jr results have tailed off a bit in recent years, and too many, especially the girls seem to plateau. But we aren't going to catch Australia, hoss.

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GB has almost triple population of Australia if the government can invest in some pools may be costly short term but will be the start of a swimming renaissance. 

[mpjmcevoy 362]

  On 8/20/2024 at 2:27 AM, Timezone said:

GB has almost triple population of Australia if the government can invest in some pools may be costly short term but will be the start of a swimming renaissance. 

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Which means they would need triple the number of olympic size swimming pools to create the opportunities that exist in Australia per person, despite having about 10% of the pools so far. (UK has13, one of which is run mainly for swim Ireland - Australia has 100+) - so to get from 12 to 300 = 288 new swimming pools.

 

The last one build was Sandwell in Birmingham for 2022 - it cost 75 million £

 

288 x 75M =21+BILLION£

 

TWENTY - ONE - BILLION

 

If you think the British government are going to spend 0.5% of that much on pools for a nation that prefers to bike and run, I have a bridge to see ya.

 

You want low hanging fruit - work out why GBR has had an absolute world class competitor in almost every field event, and NONE of their learnings have been systematically used to create a high value elite field event culture except possibly Heptathlon. Why aren't we using Sanderson, Whitbred, Daley Thompson, Dean Macey J Edwards, Aldama, Ashia Hansen. Capes, Backley, Hill, Grant, Grabartz, Steve Smith, Kate Rooney and Holly Bradshaw, Ugen and Procter, Sophie hitchon, Nick Miller, Rutherford - in a concentrated and systematic way?

 

Look at the GB cycling coaching system - sure hoy and Trott-Kenny and Rowsell took the media route, and do it well, but Jason Kenny is back in the pitlane, Paul Manning was a superb rider turned coach, and even the non coaches mentor. AND GB Cycling use them.

 

When British Athletics do find something like that, look what happens - Painter and Jenny MEadows set up a coaching group with his know how and her experience...and we Get Keely Hodgkinson, Erin Wallace, Sarah Healy... Martin Rooney works with the Hudson smith and the relay team, look what happens - they KNOW how to do it on the track, yet never bother on the field... 16 events. Small fields, no 'fast twtich' advantages, no 'altitude' advantages...

Edited August 20, 2024 by mpjmcevoy

[TeamGB 186]

I'm proud that GB is one of the true sporting nations in terms of the spread of sports they are strong in, and for me that is the strategy that should work to bring in a decent amount of medals in the sense that not every sport will have a once in a generation athlete from another country sweeping the board at one time. 

 

What frustrates me is that there are plenty of paralympic sports in which we are very strong but cannot convert that to success for their Olympic counterparts. Take Para canoeing, the women's squad is very strong both in terms of depth and winning (taking 4/5 golds at the worlds last year, with the smallest winning margin being 1.4 seconds), and yet the able bodied squad only churns out a few good athletes every so often, and didn't even qualify anyone for Paris. Its not like the facilities/ expertise isn't available, it just seems the ethos of UK sport is to play to your strengths, and if you are not a strong squad, then you seem to be ignored.

 

The lack of field athletes is really frustrating. If you look at the current global depth of throwing events in particular, it's not really that strong, and so developing a decent coaching system would likely have a medal payoff not in the distant future.

[Dragon 1,892]

  On 8/18/2024 at 8:50 PM, G-ann said:

Speaking of pub sports. What would constitute the events in a British pub Olympics? 
 

A boat race obviously, maybe skittles? Then queuing politely yet passive aggressively at a busy bar.. 

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I would suggest Gut Barging but if the US or Russia got their act together we wouldn't have a chance...

[mpjmcevoy 362]

  On 8/20/2024 at 5:54 PM, Dragon said:

I would suggest Gut Barging but if the US or Russia got their act together we wouldn't have a chance...

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Pint balancing

Beermat flipping

 

[Timezone 27]

  On 8/20/2024 at 3:56 PM, mpjmcevoy said:

Which means they would need triple the number of olympic size swimming pools to create the opportunities that exist in Australia per person, despite having about 10% of the pools so far. (UK has13, one of which is run mainly for swim Ireland - Australia has 100+) - so to get from 12 to 300 = 288 new swimming pools.

 

The last one build was Sandwell in Birmingham for 2022 - it cost 75 million £

 

288 x 75M =21+BILLION£

 

TWENTY - ONE - BILLION

 

If you think the British government are going to spend 0.5% of that much on pools for a nation that prefers to bike and run, I have a bridge to see ya.

 

You want low hanging fruit - work out why GBR has had an absolute world class competitor in almost every field event, and NONE of their learnings have been systematically used to create a high value elite field event culture except possibly Heptathlon. Why aren't we using Sanderson, Whitbred, Daley Thompson, Dean Macey J Edwards, Aldama, Ashia Hansen. Capes, Backley, Hill, Grant, Grabartz, Steve Smith, Kate Rooney and Holly Bradshaw, Ugen and Procter, Sophie hitchon, Nick Miller, Rutherford - in a concentrated and systematic way?

 

Look at the GB cycling coaching system - sure hoy and Trott-Kenny and Rowsell took the media route, and do it well, but Jason Kenny is back in the pitlane, Paul Manning was a superb rider turned coach, and even the non coaches mentor. AND GB Cycling use them.

 

When British Athletics do find something like that, look what happens - Painter and Jenny MEadows set up a coaching group with his know how and her experience...and we Get Keely Hodgkinson, Erin Wallace, Sarah Healy... Martin Rooney works with the Hudson smith and the relay team, look what happens - they KNOW how to do it on the track, yet never bother on the field... 16 events. Small fields, no 'fast twtich' advantages, no 'altitude' advantages...

Expand  

UK does have economy two times bigger then Australia so can definitely afford to add more swimming pools. Remember 33 golds in swimming compared to 12 in track cycling. Also you don't need 50m pools everywhere just need 25m ones for young kids to train in and if they develop they can transition to 50m pool as part of high performance team. 

[Rich 23]

The UK won't be building new pools sadly. It would be nice if local government, underfunded by central government in massive debt, stopped closing them. This is an article from 2023:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/12/england-has-lost-almost-400-swimming-pools-since-2010