Ski Jumping at the Nordic Skiing FIS World Championships 2019

[Skijumpingmaster 54]

13 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

It's about him retiring even after the season. People keep forgetting there's a team competition as well even if SUI only fights for Top 8 at best.

Sure , but SUI has never been good as a team . So replacing Ammann with Egloff , Hauswirth , Dominik Peter etc. won't make much difference. I guess I answered your question there? 

 

 it isn't that many years ago that SUI didn't even participate in the team competitions.

Ammann is 37/38? So he's retirement isn't far away anyway. 

[OlympicsFan 860]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Monzanator:

 

Kobayashi winning 4 hills wasn't a shock given his 11 totals wins this season. Diethart winning 4 Hills was a shock.

Of course right before the tournament started he was the favorite, but before the season started noone would have placed any bet on him. Back when Morgenstern/Schlierenzauer and so on were still active this guy would have been lucky to even make the 2nd round, but like i said many times before:

The level has dramatically dropped, Austria is gone, Norway is gone, Slovenia is gone, Kasai is gone, Freund is gone ... nowadays you have a good shot at a podium if you can safely land 2 jumps in a row.

[Monzanator 5,124]

15 minutes ago, OlympicsFan said:

Of course right before the tournament started he was the favorite, but before the season started noone would have placed any bet on him. Back when Morgenstern/Schlierenzauer and so on were still active this guy would have been lucky to even make the 2nd round, but like i said many times before:

The level has dramatically dropped, Austria is gone, Norway is gone, Slovenia is gone, Kasai is gone, Freund is gone ... nowadays you have a good shot at a podium if you can safely land 2 jumps in a row.

 

I follow ski jumping since the days of Weissflog, Ernst Vettori & Andreas Felder. The only team that is really gone is Finland. Everyone else has a better or worse crop of jumpers but they never drop below a certain level.

 

Nobody would put a penny on Toni Nieminen before 1992 either. That's the nature of this sport. It's easy to explode with form and then completely vanish within a few months. Just look where Peter Prevc is now compared to 2016. Kobayashi gets a bad press because Japan was supposed to be a field-filler like in the last decade, he doesn't speak English too and the sport has become European-centric again.

 

The level has actually gone up to the point some hills struggle with the starting gates, some hills are already at Level 1 and can't be modified anymore. That's one thing nobody ever talks about. 130 meters from Gate 15 in 1998 is nothing like 130m from Gate 1 in 2019

[OlympicsFan 860]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Monzanator:

 

I follow ski jumping since the days of Weissflog, Ernst Vettori & Andreas Felder. The only team that is really gone is Finland. Everyone else has a better or worse crop of jumpers but they never drop below a certain level.

 

Nobody would put a penny on Toni Nieminen before 1992 either. That's the nature of this sport. It's easy to explode with form and then completely vanish within a few months. Just look where Peter Prevc is now compared to 2016. Kobayashi gets a bad press because Japan was supposed to be a field-filler like in the last decade, he doesn't speak English too and the sport has become European-centric again.

 

The level has actually gone up to the point some hills struggle with the starting gates, some hills are already at Level 1 and can't be modified anymore. That's one thing nobody ever talks about. 130 meters from Gate 15 in 1998 is nothing like 130m from Gate 1 in 2019

"The level has actually gone up to the point some hills struggle with the starting gates, some hills are already at Level 1 and can't be modified anymore."

Yeah and the equipment surely has nothing to do with that ...

The fact that guys like Kasai/Amann were/are able to compete well into their 50s/40s only allows one conclusion: The level has clearly decreased over the last couple of years.

[Monzanator 5,124]

1 minute ago, OlympicsFan said:

"The level has actually gone up to the point some hills struggle with the starting gates, some hills are already at Level 1 and can't be modified anymore."

Yeah and the equipment surely has nothing to do with that ...

The fact that guys like Kasai/Amann were/are able to compete well into their 50s/40s only allows one conclusion: The level has clearly decreased over the last couple of years.

 

Equipment belongs to the competition factor? This comes at every level, they don't use wooden rackets in tennis anymore but nobody says the level has dropped because Federer doesn't use wood anymore

 

Did you forget about Ammann's ski bindings which apparently gave him the edge before? EVERYONE tries to cheat the system. That comes with the technology jump. Can't blame someone for doing a better job

[heywoodu 16,464]

22 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

The only team that is really gone is Finland. 

And they are (slowly) coming back, ski jumping is going up in terms of quality.

[Monzanator 5,124]

46 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

And they are (slowly) coming back, ski jumping is going up in terms of quality.

 

You're joking, right? Nobody in World Champs Top 30 and you say about quality? With their history in the sport? Jarkko Maette has never scored a single Top 10 in 8 years of World Cup career and this guy makes the team here? Finland is hilariously bad right now and definitely NOT improving. A drunken Harri Olli could have made this WC ahead of Alammomo & Nouisiaien and he was already from the fading period.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Monzanator

[ahjfcshfghb 296]

9 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

You're joking, right? Nobody in World Champs Top 30 and you say about quality? With their history in the sport? Jarkko Maette has never scored a single Top 10 in 8 years of World Cup career and this guy makes the team here? Finland is hilariously bad right now and definitely NOT improving. A drunken Harri Olli could have made this WC ahead of Alammomo & Nouisiaien and he was already from the fading period.

I'm hoping the USA can beat Finland tomorrow. I bet it'll happen. 

[Skijumpingmaster 54]

Based on today's result Germany would win the team competition in front of Austria and Norway . I think Germany wins tomorrow with Austria , Poland and Norway fighting over the rest . 

 

[heywoodu 16,464]

13 minutes ago, Monzanator said:

 

You're joking, right? Nobody in World Champs Top 30 and you say about quality? With their history in the sport? Jarkko Maette has never scored a single Top 10 in 8 years of World Cup career and this guy makes the team here? Finland is hilariously bad right now and definitely NOT improving. A drunken Harri Olli could have made this WC ahead of Alammomo & Nouisiaien and he was already from the fading period.

Which is why I'm saying Finland is slowly getting back. They were entirely invisible for a while, but in recent months they're starting to be a bit more visible again. Come on, Antti Aalto is even 20th in the World Cup standings. Sure, for Finland's history it's not much, but since Koivuranta (19th in 2014, 18th in 2012) was the last one in the top-20 since Hautamäki finishing 8th in 2011, it's definitely a step forward compared to the last few years.

 

They even have four guys scoring World Cup points this season, which didn't happen in the previous three years. So no, they are lightyears away from where they once were, but yeah, they are improving compared to the last 2-3 years.