Yes, Hoogland in the men's sprint, Van der Duin with a crash in the madison and will not compete in the omnium, Van der Peet (last year medal in keirin) and Van der Wouw a little disappointing (we expected a lot more from this 'new' generation) and last but not least a terrible tournament for Olympic champion keirin Shanne Braspenninckx. Büchli had two stupid falls in the elemination and finished still 4th.
Hoogland was good today, but he misses speed this tournament.
All by all a little disappointing tournament for The Netherlands. Except for Lavreysen ofcourse.
Your new generation in women's speed events might have been disappointing so far, but not really sure how you could have expected a medal here from them. At least Friedrich, Hinze and Gros should have been favored over all of them and the emergance of Finucane didn't help either. Keirin is unpredictable, so they maybe could have won a medal there, but i definitlely wouldn't say that they were among the favorites for a medal. Friedrich won the last two world championships and only won bronze here, so even for the (clearly) best rider in the world a medal isn't a given. In the women's sprint a dutch medal actually would have been a big shock in my opinion. The most astonishing thing for me is that the Netherlands never do anything in the team pursuit.
Edited by OlympicsFan
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Lavreysen once again proves to be the best track sprinter at the moment. A great achievement from someone who is undervalued in the Netherlands. While he is really a super nice and approachable boy. Hopefully he will one day receive the right appreciation in the Netherlands.
Except for Lavreysen, the Dutch team is having a bad tournament with a handful of fourth and fifth places.
Did anyone actually underperform in your opinion?
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
The madison is just too chaotic for my liking. Time for a clearcut event where 2 big muscular men ride three laps and Lavreysen crosses the finish line first.
Not sure i would call someone at 1.81 m big, but he for sure is extemely muscular.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
1 - Actually I thought that was true as well. Although I think not all the new parts will be on every bicycle.
2 - Finucane was 0.17 seconds slower than Friedrich in February, today she was 0.16 seconds faster. Not unexpected that a 20 year old could improve that much in 7 months.
3 - Very important that you remember that Finucane is eighteen months younger that Propster and Kouame and at the World Juniors was a sixteen year old competing against eighteen year olds. The fact she beat them at the European Juniors that year kind of proves my point.
a) The european junior championships in 2019 were before the junior world championships, so your argument doesn't really make sense.
b) Finucane also never did anythting else impressive at junior or U23 level. Before today there was no competition that indicated that she was a special talent.
c) If you say that ther progression isn't unexpected for her age, then you would have to ask yourself why Pröpster, Kouame and Friedrich, who are all not much older didn't have a remotely similar progression.
d) If you think that Finucane improving by that much since the european championships was expected (in case british cycling clearly focused on worlds), then you have to ask yourself why Capewell, who was clearly faster than Finucane at the european championships, is now slower than her. If she indeed used the same bike, then there is no "logical" explanation for her improvement. Both her teammate (Capewell since the european championships this year) and her former peers (Pröpster, Kouame since 2019 junior worlds) haven't shown a remotely similar improvement.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Yes I'm sure - the only rider who used the new bike was Charlie Tanfield in the men's pursuit (and we all know how that ended). Everyone else is on the old bike.
As far as I am aware, no nation is solely using their new kit - everyone is doing the bare minimum to register it and allow it to be used in Paris
Ok, as long as i don't have any proof i won't believe it (which doesn't mean that it isn't true). If she really used the same bike, then her progression makes even less sense. She wasn't even close to Grabosch at europeans and now she is faster than Friedrich who is lightyears ahead of Grabosch.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Also she won two silver medals at the Europeans in February and was European Junior champion in 2019 as a 16 year old, beating cyclists two years older than her...
1) About the bike: Look at the articles i posted above.
2) She was completely hopeless in the sprint event at europeans and lightyears away from the german girls in qualification.
3) She finished 3rd at 2019 junior worlds in sprint and time trial. She got destroyed by Pröpster who is the german number 4. There was absolutely no indication that she was a special talent. In the time trial both Pröpster and Kouame completely destroyed her by 0.3/0.4 seconds, it wasn't even remotely close.
Edited by OlympicsFan
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
I knew she was good but I didn't expect her to be this good at such a young age.
I think it is at least 90 % the bike. She was completely lost at european championships not too long ago. She also never did anything remotely impressive at junior level.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Reminds me of omnium events during UCI Track Nations Cup in Indonesia. 90% of the crowd have no idea about track cycling, so they do not understand at all what is the difference of scratch/points/tempo and why this should be exciting. But elimination race is very intuitive and the crowd easily engage with the race (even cheering for the Hong Kong rider who barely survived elimination for 3 or 4 consecutive times). When the points race started, quite a lot of people went back home
The elimination race should be an olympic event, it is more exciting than most of the other events (maybe excluding sprint and keirin). It always baffles me that many federations have no clue what people want to watch. Make events closer/less predictable/easier to follow and more people will watch. Maybe some football representatives bribed officials of other sports in order to get them to make their own sports as unwatchable as possible -> Makes football more popular ...
Edited by OlympicsFan
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Absolutely the worst world championships i can remember. One event per day and somehow the sessions still last 5 hours and they never manage to stick to the schedule. The paralympic events should either not be part of the program or take place during the break between morning and evening sessions (when noone is forced to watch it).
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
no, keirin's problem is that they should get back to the Eighties
more riders in each heat (no less than 8) and fuck those supposed "safety rules", the only forbidden moves should be leaving the hands from the handle and riding on the blue lane, anything else must be allowed (as it used to be when keirin was a lot of fun)
nowadays is just a 2-lap sprint with a few riders...they just killed it, made it a nonsense
No, too much rounds is definitely a problem. Maybe they could also do what you said, but basically noone getting eliminated before the semifinal makes it incredibly boring.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Given the relative strengths of the teams, Germany had to bring their A-game to the second round to have a chance to ride for bronze. I don’t see them delivering a faster time in a third ride. NL and AUS did not need to post their fastest time in the second round. If based on the times in the second round you want to believe that Germany is closer to the two top teams, no one can stop you.
1) Last year Germany was faster in the bronze medal match than they were in the 2nd round, so what you said is evidently nonsense.
2) Germany was 1.4 seconds behind the fastest team in the 2nd round last year, this year they were only 1.1 seconds behind the fastest team in the 2nd round -> Clear improvement.
3) In my opinion you can only behave in a condescending way (which doesn't mean that you should) if you are actually in the right. Behaving that way while being in the wrong just makes you look foolish.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Who said it was a no-brainer ? Fact is, looking at the splits, without this FS and the French starter doing 150m all out France would have won this duel fair and square.
Concerning gaps Germany was actually further away from the best time outside of Australia/NL than last year.
2022 : 42.95 vs 42.75 (GB first round)
2023 : 42.92 vs 42.58 (France bronze final)
Ok, obviously I'll need to make my point even clearer ...
Germany was closer to the top teams (Netherlands/Australia) than last year and obviously times from the finals don't count. Germany only had 2 rides, so obviously it wouldn't make sense to use times from rounds were Germany didn't even compete. You might say that maybe France didn't give their best in the 2nd round and that their time therefore didn't reflect their true strength, but obviously they would have had zero incentive to do so (since a better time in the 2nd round would have given them a chance to ride for gold, so it would make no sense to assume that they didn't given their best in the 2nd round). Not sure why you felt the need to use a completely different definition of "top teams" just to keep the discussion going ...
Whatever the reason was for France not making it into the bronze final last year doesn't matter for this discussion and of course neither of us knows what time they could/would/should have gone. Germany is closer to the top teams time wise than last year, although their ranking this year doesn't reflect it.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Not sure why you keep acting like I implied anything you mentionned. France was better than Germany last year (still is) and Germany made it through the semis because of a false start. That's the reason why they managed to place better last year while being slower.
Stop projecting your own reflexions on everything somebody else is saying.
1) The gap between France and Germany isn't remotely big enough for you to act as if France beating Germany was/would have been a no-brainer.
2) I said that the gap between Germany and the top teams got smaller, although they placed lower. Their time wasn't really relevant, only the gap to the top teams.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Dörnbach 7th in qualification, ahead of Richardson and Yakovlev, absolutely didn't think that i would ever be able to write this. Last year he was only 23th in qualification, huge improvement. Last time a german guy placed higher in qualification was in 2017 (when Niederlag placed 2nd). Maybe Dörnbach has a chance at sneaking into the quarterfinal. Lavreysen obviously in a league of his own. The gap between Lavreysen and the 2nd fastest guy (Rudyk) was bigger than the gap between the 2nd fastest guy and the 7th fastest guy.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
They managed to place higher last year cause the false start against France in round 1 cost us the match. They were never expected to get through the finals.
Not sure why you keep acting as if France is anything special in team sprint. The Netherlands and Australia are in their own class and then there is a bunch of nations (mainly France, GB, Germany) competing for bronze. GB is the favorite for bronze at the moment. Germany was 0.1 seconds behind the 3rd fastest team tonight.
Edited by OlympicsFan
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
In men's team sprint Germany is closer to the top teams (time-wise), but placed worse than last year. In the end i don't really see the men winning any medal next year.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
The german team seems to be treading water. They were closer to the bronze medal race than last year, but a 7th/8th place (if GB wouldn't have put on a clown show) is still far away. Germany has been very good in this event at the junior level for quite some time, but for some reason it doesn't translate.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
I guess that is a better attitude than being pessimistic, as long as you are able to handle a possible disappointment. Imagining all the great things that young talents might achieve/fantasizing about their potential is one of the most fun parts of being a supporter. Personally i get excited whenever Germany has a great talent in swimming, although i of course have realized by now that they (almost) never will achieve anything at senior level.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
we've changed a lot of things with our coaching staff and we've hired former raod sprinter Ivan Quaranta as a supervisor for the sprinters
even if it dates back in time, we've also a great tradition in men's track sprinting...after years when the federation totally dismissed all the track programs, now we have new officials that showed interest and the ability to work well...we've rebuilt the endurance sector first, we're going to rebuild the sprint group too, very soon...
You certainly have a lot of faith. Do you have any influence on the success of the program/how can you be so sure when you don't have any influence (inside knowledge)?
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
great talent, great power, but not so skilled in the one-vs-one matchups and sometimes he seems not to be interested in what's going on around him
he's still among the most expected new stars of track cycling, but I think Predomo is way better than him (he's extremely skilled in the one-vs-one matchups and he's still a superlightweight...he definitely has way more margin of improvement of the Israeli guy)
however, as I wrote, right now Yakovlev is already a fully built man ready to win (on his good days), Predomo is just a promising youngster (just turned 19 last Spring)
We will see. I definitely wouldn't bet on him, given that Italy hasn't shown that they can produce elite sprinters. Germany also is very good at junior level on the men's side, but they don't know how to get close to the Netherlands/Australia at senior level. Some years ago Greece and India also both had a great talent at junior level, but (as far as i know) neither of them really "clicked" at senior level.
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
however, it doesn't change much in perspective...our guy is for real
maybe Paris 2024 comes a bit too early, but I expect a lot from him in the future (ps with his skills, he might be already very competitive in Keirin, but I don't know if our coaches want him to work properly in that dangerous discipline)
What happened to the ru... israeli guy? I thought he was supposed to be the "real deal"?
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Depressing results for Germany. Only the female sprinters can compete for medals. The men have been shit for almost a decade now, the gap doesn't get any smaller. Right now i wouldn't even bet on Germany winning gold in women's team sprint in Paris, GB will probably have another big time drop next year. Would be interesting to know if men and women are using the same bike (in different sizes)?
Edited by OlympicsFan
Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
Posted (edited)
Your new generation in women's speed events might have been disappointing so far, but not really sure how you could have expected a medal here from them. At least Friedrich, Hinze and Gros should have been favored over all of them and the emergance of Finucane didn't help either. Keirin is unpredictable, so they maybe could have won a medal there, but i definitlely wouldn't say that they were among the favorites for a medal. Friedrich won the last two world championships and only won bronze here, so even for the (clearly) best rider in the world a medal isn't a given. In the women's sprint a dutch medal actually would have been a big shock in my opinion. The most astonishing thing for me is that the Netherlands never do anything in the team pursuit.
Edited by OlympicsFanAttachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached.
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