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3 hours ago, Vojthas said:

Iḿ watching the replay of yesterday and I think these words are too real to be true: "It is crucial, that the objectives of host cities are fully integrated with those of the Olympic Movement. And it all comes down to one word: sustainability." How did Stockholm lose after such a beloved-Bach-aimed words? :p

 

Because those words, like all word that come out of Bach's mouth, are hollow and meaningless. He'll trade his integrity and the survival of the Olympic movement for glitz and glamour at every turn. 

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1 minute ago, phelps said:

 

1) why? do you think that artistic swimming and rhythmic gymnastics specialists don't need to train and don't have athletic skills equal or superior to those of many other disciplines' specialists?

I consider all those disciplines NON-SPORT activities because the final outcome is entirely determined by the personal opinion of some biased when not fully corrupted socalled "judges", with no place for real man-to-man confrontation...

IOC's motto: altius, citius, fortius...those disciplines don't require athletes to be better in any of those objective criteria..it's just politics and personal taste...

I perfectly know that all those guys work day after day for hours...but their performance to me it remains a show (like going to the theatre...being their show on ice, on snow, in the water or whatever they play their game) rather than a sport competition...

 

3) because Torino and the entire region of Piedmont is NOT a Winter Sport cradle (by the way, all figure skating, short track and most of the speedskating and men's ice hockey events in Turin were soldout or close to that) and moreover they chose the wrong places for the mountain competitions (where the major attendance issues were recorded)...

the worst mistake of them all was the choice of the sliding sports track location...and they even made a capital mistake in its orientation (it was completely exposed to the sun for most of the day, making almost impossible to use it from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. for official competitions and professional training)...

all things that won't happen in 2026 (Milan is the cradle of the Italian Ice Hockey and Figure Skating -look at how successful were the Figure Skating world champs hosted in the same arena that will host the 2026 Games just last year, despite coming only 2 months after the Olympics, and there's no need to mention the tradition all the snow sport venues carry with them)...

 

1) I agree that judged sports are frustrating and that politics and personal taste do very much come into play. I will, however, say that this is not as much the case with freestyle skiing and snowboarding - they have not been exposed to the corruption that other judged sports like figure skating and artistic swimming have. The medals Canada earns in these sports shouldn't be worth any less than the medals Italy earns in alpine skiing and short track, in my opinion. Our victories aren't "tainted" like the victories of nations in other judged sports (*cough* Russia *cough*). I think that calling it not a sport devalues the work that the athletes put in - it still takes a great deal of skill and performing well on competition day, as do other sports.

 

3) Well, that sounds great then. All of our debate has been based on speculation and "what could have been". Now that the Games are officially in Milan and there is nothing that can change that, I look forward to watching their preparations and enjoying what should be a tremendous event, as well as continuing to debate these fun (and sometimes controversial topics) with you and other members in the lead up to 2026 :d 

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Also remember that Stockholm pulled out of their bid for the 2022 Winter Olympics, and there was much opposition to their 2004 bid for the Summer Games. I wonder if there is still some resentment against Sweden within the IOC

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5 minutes ago, phelps said:

 

3 things...

 

1) yes, all the "artistic" snowboard and freestyle disciplines (not all those sports, just those disciplines) to me are NON-SPORTS (like artistic swimming, rhythmic gymnastics and similar events in the Summer Olympics schedule)...

and yes, they've been put in the schedule only because NBC and CBC "ordered" the IOC to do it (to catch the younger audience, but it's not an IOC's policy...it all came from the North American TV Networks, who need to increase their audience to make more money)...

and in comparison to all this kind of events, the addition of 1 or 2 more races in the "old" snow sports are really a little thing...

 

2) about Norway, Germany not hosting the Games...it's not my fault if their people democaratically voted to avoid bidding...

meanwhile this (I underline, this) Swedish bid was so poor that it would have been more a problem for the future of Winter Games than a resource if it would have won...

maybe next time they would make it better and finally they would get a chance to host the Games...

 

3) about funding...no way Italy's gonna do anything like the other Countries (Torino 2006 docet)...

it will be only a question of finding some occasional talent as always...

here it's only about soccer, Ferrari and Valentino Rossi...anything else is just a really "minor thing" that's not worth the interest of the majority of the people (and of the politicians), especially if we talk about Winter Sports,which are dedicated to and followed by only a small (very small) part of the Country...

just to make an example...tv rating of the women's soccer world cup (our National team): 30%, average tv rating of any sport not being soccer/Ferrari/Valentino Rossi: between 1% and 3% (the Olympic Games are just an exception, but there's no chance they get even close to the soccer ratings)...

 

1) It's really a waste of time in  having a substantive debate with you if that's what you believe. To equate freestyle skiing and snowboarding with artistic swimming and rhythmic gymnastics shows that you truly have zero understanding of these sports and the athletic prowess that they require. 

 

As for the television network argument, the CBC has no power. The only television network with any sway is NBC, and while they surely encouraged the addition of new events in snowboarding and freestyle skiing, the IOC also has made engaging a youthful audience a priority (https://www.olympic.org/news/2020-vision-looking-ahead-to-lausanne-2020-engaging-young-people). Furthermore, the addition of new events in traditional sports has also benefited European nations with the chance for more medals in the same way additions in other sports have benefited the US and Canada. 

 

2) This reiterates what I was saying. It's not your fault these other nations aren't engaged - it's due to the failures of the IOC to foster a sustainable Winter Olympic Games concept through their thirst for greed in staging the grossly expensive 2014 Olympics, which have turned off many democratic populaces from wanting to host. I was simply stating that in an ideal world, other nations would fall in line before Italy for hosting (this does not take away from the fact that I'm sure Italy will host an incredible Olympics in 2026)

 

3) This doesn't exactly help your argument - I remember that attendance was a major issue at the Torino Olympics. If Italian engagement in winter sports is low, it only furthers my argument that they aren't deserving of a second Winter Olympics in 20 years. 

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Winter Olympic Games 2026 Bid Process
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Federer91 said:

 

Umm, say what now?! 

 

Read my post below. Italy is a very strong winter sport nation, but I would define a powerhouse as a country that can win or at least finish in the top 5-6 of the medal table consistently.

 

However, my post has been taken out of context - I simply don't find Italy's winter Olympic performance strong enough to justify 2 Games in a 20 year span. 

Edited by ofan
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3 minutes ago, phelps said:

 

that's ironic to hear from a Winter Sports powerhouse that's become that way only because in the last 20 years the Olympic schedule has been built only according the specific need and desire of the North American TV Networks with all those NON-SPORT activities like "artistic snowboard", freestyle, more and more absurd figure skating competitions and so on...

 

let's get back to basics...and you all would discover that Italy is way better than USA, Canada and all the other non-European Nations in almost all the real snow sports (alpine skiing, cross-country skiing -maybe not nowadays, but a few years ago it was a different story- biathlon, alpine disciplines snowboard, sliding sports -except for skeleton, which, guess what? it's not a "traditional" Olympic sliding sport like bobsleigh and luge)...

 

and even in the ice sports we're not a powerhouse, but for sure we always have some competitive athletes in all of those disciplines, despite not having venues, decent funding and people practicing them...

 

p.s. and the venues chosen for the 2026 Games in most cases are by far the most iconic used in all the most recent Olympic Games, included those hosted by the supposed powerhouses of the Winter Sports...

and being iconic venues already existing and dedicated to the sport, there's no way they're going to have any legacy and sustainability trouble like the "cathedrals in the desert" built for Torino 2006 (and then quickly dismissed and/or abandoned)...

 

so, yes! Milano-Cortina on paper is going to be the most "ideal" setup for the Winter Games since Lillehammer in 1994...

 

A few things:

 

First, additions to the Olympic schedule have not come from the desires of North American TV networks, but rather the IOCs desire to cater to a younger generation of both athletes and viewers. Furthermore, the IOC has made a handful of additions to the Winter Olympics programs in other sports like biathlon, alpine skiing and sliding sports (the supposed sports Italy dominates non-European nations in) over the last few years. If Canada and the United States have benefited from the sports that are growing in popularity in modern times, at the expense of traditional sports, hats off to them for evolving with the times. 

 

Second, Canada may have been aided by some new additions to the program, but much of its success has come from the millions in government funding as a part of the Own the Podium program designed to bring Canada success in its home Olympics in 2010 and beyond. I'm sure the Italian government will put in place a similar program for 2026 to try and prove me wrong about them not being a powerhouse ( :d )

 

Third, I'm not sure if I'm reading correctly, but to suggest that snowboarding and freestyle skiing are not sports is ridiculous. 

 

My point is this: Italy has a very strong winter sports tradition. But, it is unfair to me for them to host multiple games in a 20 year span, when nations like Norway, Sweden or Germany, with a much deeper winter sports tradition and a much stronger medal performance at the Olympics, have not hosted once. However, that is the way things go when other nations don't have the public support levels in place to sustain an Olympic bid. 

 

To conclude, Italy had a great, technically-sound bid, and congratulations to all Italians. I never said the venues will not be iconic - Milan-Cortina will be a beautiful setting for the Winter Olympics, and I agree it will be the first "traditional" Olympic set up since 1994, as well as a great opportunity to potentially "save" the Winter Olympic games from the downward trajectory that they are heading in. However, I still stand by my belief that I would have liked to have seen the Games spread around to other nations before Italy got another shot. 

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Just now, heywoodu said:

Oh crap. That was my one and only reason to hope Italy didn't get it. RIP Baselga :cry: 

 

Now I'm not sure which epic venues are left...Collalbo and the basically never used Medeo I guess..

 

Yes, very unfortunate. However, the IOC had concerns with the long-term viability of adding a roof and "modernizing" the facility, so it is still possible that it may remain an outdoor facility :d. It would be nice to have the speed skating outside again, it hasn't happened since 1992, but I'm sure logistical concerns such as weather make it an issue. 

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Winter Olympic Games 2026 Bid Process
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, heywoodu said:

Not Baselga? :hyper: 

 

Yes, in Baselga, within the Val di Fiemme cluster of venues. They're rebuilding the venue used for the 1995 World Championships

Edited by ofan
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1 hour ago, Vojthas said:

What about Summer Olympics in Denmark? Nobody has such an idea so far?

 

Copenhagen is too small. You need at least 40,000 hotel rooms and a population of at least 2.5 million. Copenhagen has less than 30,000 rooms. 

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Just now, hckosice said:

Mr. the 1976 Fencing Olympic Champion announcing it himself, the 2026 Ice Hockey Olympics tournaments will be in :ITA

 

bFxYMcPFSFrdpjvd-wUmvQ.1280~Thomas-Bach.

 

Another downside of Italy winning is that we probably won't see the NHL players in 2026. 

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Disappointing result. I was hoping for Stockholm, as 2 Olympic games in 20 years for a non-Winter Olympic powerhouse nation like Italy seems unfair. However, the logistics and wary public/government support for the Stockholm bid is what put them at a disadvantage at the end. I'm sure that Milan-Cortina will put on a great Olympic games, but it remains to be seen whether the legacy and sustainability of the Games will be any better than the disastrous legacy left behind by the Turin Games. 

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