phelps 6,858 Posted March 21, 2021 #111 Share Posted March 21, 2021 39 minutes ago, Fly_like_a_don said: Not to forget he wasted quotas in having team event in each fencing discipline ridiculous when compound archery is still not given at least 20 quotas for individual event. first of all, no quota was added to the Fencing program, as the team events have been added without adding new quota to those who were already there for the Individual event...they just adjusted the distribution of those spots... second, Fencing is the most historical discipline of the Games together with Athletics and Artistic Gymnastics...so, it was time to make up for that enormous injustice that the was the rotation of 4 out of 6 team events (and we're still talking of a sport with 12 competitions all together, when there are some other sports giving away tons of medals to the same athlete or tons of medals in general without having a true diversification between their disciplines)... I'm really tired of new sports without tradition and/or special features replacing the core of the Games I've always loved and I still love... it's absolutely a nonsense... third, team events in Fencing are not just the addition of some individual performance (like many other sports), therefore, if there are 2 sports where team events have their own nature and must be saved, those are Fencing (and Archery)... p.s. Compound Archery doesn't have anything to do with the true art of Archery, which has always been and always will be only the naked Archery (the current olympic event)... Cobi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prso1000 539 Posted March 21, 2021 #112 Share Posted March 21, 2021 41 minutes ago, phelps said: first of all, no quota was added to the Fencing program, as the team events have been added without adding new quota to those who were already there for the Individual event...they just adjusted the distribution of those spots... second, Fencing is the most historical discipline of the Games together with Athletics and Artistic Gymnastics...so, it was time to make up for that enormous injustice that the was the rotation of 4 out of 6 team events (and we're still talking of a sport with 12 competitions all together, when there are some other sports giving away tons of medals to the same athlete or tons of medals in general without having a true diversification between their disciplines)... I'm really tired of new sports without tradition and/or special features replacing the core of the Games I've always loved and I still love... it's absolutely a nonsense... third, team events in Fencing are not just the addition of some individual performance (like many other sports), therefore, if there are 2 sports where team events have their own nature and must be saved, those are Fencing (and Archery)... p.s. Compound Archery doesn't have anything to do with the true art of Archery, which has always been and always will be only the naked Archery (the current olympic event)... You imply fencing is more traditional than wrestling ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlympicsFan 783 Posted March 21, 2021 #113 Share Posted March 21, 2021 44 minutes ago, phelps said: first of all, no quota was added to the Fencing program, as the team events have been added without adding new quota to those who were already there for the Individual event...they just adjusted the distribution of those spots... second, Fencing is the most historical discipline of the Games together with Athletics and Artistic Gymnastics...so, it was time to make up for that enormous injustice that the was the rotation of 4 out of 6 team events (and we're still talking of a sport with 12 competitions all together, when there are some other sports giving away tons of medals to the same athlete or tons of medals in general without having a true diversification between their disciplines)... I'm really tired of new sports without tradition and/or special features replacing the core of the Games I've always loved and I still love... it's absolutely a nonsense... third, team events in Fencing are not just the addition of some individual performance (like many other sports), therefore, if there are 2 sports where team events have their own nature and must be saved, those are Fencing (and Archery)... p.s. Compound Archery doesn't have anything to do with the true art of Archery, which has always been and always will be only the naked Archery (the current olympic event)... Just because a sport was there since the beginning, doesn’t mean that it should have more Events today than it would normally deserve. Personally I believe that the number of events should at least somewhat reflect the importance of a sport/the number of people that actually are active in that sport. Attachment is the great fabricator of illusions; reality can be obtained only by someone who is detached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcro 10,179 Posted March 21, 2021 #114 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, phelps said: p.s. Compound Archery doesn't have anything to do with the true art of Archery, which has always been and always will be only the naked Archery (the current olympic event)... I believe the point was - How come fencing can have all these weapons, while archery must be limited to recurve only? And it is a very good point. For an average audience, recurve/compound are just a variation on the theme the same way foil/epee/sabre are. Fly_like_a_don and George_D 2 #banbestmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcro 10,179 Posted March 21, 2021 #115 Share Posted March 21, 2021 But then again, comparing archery to fencing in the wrestling qualification thread may be a tiny bit off topic. Olympian1010 1 #banbestmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George_D 874 Posted March 21, 2021 #116 Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, dcro said: But then again, comparing archery to fencing in the wrestling qualification thread may be a tiny bit off topic. back to the topic again. In 1972 Olympics wrestling had 10 categories in both men's freestyle and greco-roman. Now it has only 6 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunadan 1,103 Posted March 21, 2021 #117 Share Posted March 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Fly_like_a_don said: Not to forget he wasted quotas in having team event in each fencing discipline ridiculous when compound archery is still not given at least 20 quotas for individual event. Archery (with teams made of 3 archers) has 64 entries per individual event, fencing (with teams made of 3 fencers) has 32-34, a tiny field if compared to other competitions like World Cups, etc. I'm not sure that World Archery would accept an halved number of entries in recurve to make space for compound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vektor 3,195 Posted March 21, 2021 #118 Share Posted March 21, 2021 44 minutes ago, George_D said: back to the topic again. In 1972 Olympics wrestling had 10 categories in both men's freestyle and greco-roman. Now it has only 6 .. Wrestling is losing events / quotas because women's Greco-Roman still doesn't exist, and the clock is ticking for both wrestling and GR. FIE did their job over the years and introduced female sabre and épéé in the Olympic program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly_like_a_don 932 Posted March 21, 2021 #119 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, dcro said: I believe the point was - How come fencing can have all these weapons, while archery must be limited to recurve only? And it is a very good point. For an average audience, recurve/compound are just a variation on the theme the same way foil/epee/sabre are. Exactly what I meant. 128 quotas for archery, 212 for fencing how unfair. And @Dunadan @phelps no matter what you put forward end of the day its wrong. Why should quotas be halved in archery? 36/64 belong to team so team event shouldn't be cancelled so 64 is fine for a sport older than fencing. Instead Fencing should have 128 quotas like archery 20*6 events with only top 3 nations in each discipline able to send 2 athletes if both in top 8 + 8 tripartite invitation and a mixed team event opossibly, ideally not required. Of the 84 saved quotas archery can take say 20-24 each gender. 12 events in fencing is way too much Dunadan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vektor 3,195 Posted March 21, 2021 #120 Share Posted March 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Fly_like_a_don said: Exactly what I meant. 128 quotas for archery, 212 for fencing how unfair. And @Dunadan @phelps no matter what you put forward end of the day its wrong. Why should quotas be halved in archery? 36/64 belong to team so team event shouldn't be cancelled so 64 is fine for a sport older than fencing. Instead Fencing should have 128 quotas like archery 20*6 events with only top 3 nations able to send 2 athletes if both in top 8 + 8 tripartite invitation and a mixed team event of possibly, ideally not required. Of the 84 saved quotas archery can take say 20-24 each gender. 12 events in fencing is way too much You are mixing things up regarding the age of sports. We are talking about compound archery, which is a very modern discipline, and only got introduced at the World Championships in the 90s. Compared to compound archery all the fencing disciplines are ancient and have been on the Olympic program since 1896/1900. And the only people who would ever support the idea of a mixed all disciplines fencing team even are the ones who don't understand the sport at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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