Olympian1010 7,470 Posted November 26, 2019 #541 Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Jan Linha said: I suppose there will be some hard sanctions and we may face some Russia nominated athletes for Tokyo 2020 banned from the Games. Might be similar scenario like in Rio. Russian squad was cut by 111 names and it caused bunch of Olympic reallocation. I guess that Bach and the team around him will accept this way again. And I am afraid there will be many cuts again. As there should be. We caught them first time. I would have been fine with Russia if they really did at least make an attempt to clean up their act, but they did the exact opposite of that. Now, all the athletes beaten by doping Russians get justice. Plus, we should make an example of Russia. “Sport has the power to change the world. It has the power to inspire. Sport can create hope where once there was only despair” - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monzanator 3,593 Posted November 26, 2019 #542 Share Posted November 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Olympian1010 said: As there should be. We caught them first time. I would have been fine with Russia if they really did at least make an attempt to clean up their act, but they did the exact opposite of that. Now, all the athletes beaten by doping Russians get justice. Plus, we should make an example of Russia. The Cold War is over besides that won't stop anyone from doping tbh. Kenya is crawling up the line and there's like zero chance anyone takes them out. Bulgaria got banned for widespread doping in weightlifting and nobody thought about banning the entire nation from the Olympic Games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vovanA 53 Posted November 26, 2019 #543 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Media report Russian diving Olympic champion Ilya Zakharov is suspended for 18 months due to three missed tests and retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian1010 7,470 Posted November 26, 2019 #544 Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Monzanator said: The Cold War is over besides that won't stop anyone from doping tbh. Kenya is crawling up the line and there's like zero chance anyone takes them out. Bulgaria got banned for widespread doping in weightlifting and nobody thought about banning the entire nation from the Olympic Games. Kenya needs to be punished severely too. I think that after this Russia business is over, WADA should do the following: Give nations a chance to come forward and confess to doping (for a reduced punishment), after that opportunity passes, any country with a proven systemic doping problem is banned from international sports for a decade (that includes all athletes clean and unclean). “Sport has the power to change the world. It has the power to inspire. Sport can create hope where once there was only despair” - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monzanator 3,593 Posted November 26, 2019 #545 Share Posted November 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said: Kenya needs to be punished severely too. I think that after this Russia business is over, WADA should do the following: Give nations a chance to come forward and confess to doping (for a reduced punishment), after that opportunity passes, any country with a proven systemic doping problem is banned from international sports for a decade (that includes all athletes clean and unclean). Collective responsibility will lead into widespread boyotts of sporting events therefore politics will win again. I thought we learned something from 1980/1984 but maybe you thing these OG boycotts was the best thing that ever happened? Not to mention clean athletes will sue this decision in interntional courts citing discrimination (which in general is very popular lately). Hell, UK athletes want to sue the federation over sponsorship deals as we speak (not allowing non-Olympic sponsors to be marketed around the Olympics). At the end of the day nobody will pay attention to actual doping but political battles in court will take over the news. And this kind of a shitstorm will only help the doping cheats because the focus will be shifted elsewhere. Besides what number will prove a systematic doping? 20 athetes get caught and that's enough? Or like 50? Or maybe we need one mega star like Marion Jones in the BALCO scandal? The Russian witch hunt was aso fuelled by meldonium which is only banned in USA but wasn't banned in Russia. How about WADA gets their act together first? I know you're pushing for the renewal of the Cold War but do we really have to sacrifice the global sport for this? Hell, you're advocating for a thing Donald Trump would be proud of despite the fact you despise the guy. I'm sure Trump would love Russia & China perma-banned from every single sporting event for the next 30 years. Yeah, that would solve the doping problem Like the Lance Armstrong scandal has wiped away the doping in cycling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phelps 6,793 Posted November 26, 2019 #546 Share Posted November 26, 2019 8 hours ago, Jan Linha said: I suppose there will be some hard sanctions and we may face some Russia nominated athletes for Tokyo 2020 banned from the Games. Might be similar scenario like in Rio. Russian squad was cut by 111 names and it caused bunch of Olympic reallocation. I guess that Bach and the team around him will accept this way again. And I am afraid there will be many cuts again. to me, the important is not to see that farce of OAR anymore... I hope Bach & co. are going to reject at least the "no Russian Flag must wave at the Olympics"... if there are some Russian athletes who are considered "clean" beyond any doubt and allowed to take part into the Olympic Games, they must have their Flag and Anthem playing in Tokyo and Beijing... p.s. however, I'd like to hear/read the same recommendations for all those Nike protected cheaters normally speaking another Language, from this and the other side of the Ocean (any reference to USA, GBR, AUS and all their allied Nations is purely intentional )... Giovanni Gianni Cattaneo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heywoodu 13,540 Posted November 26, 2019 #547 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Are people forgetting on purpose there's a huge difference between individuals choosing to cheat (or even teams playing dirty based on some company) and actual state governments having massive doping programs and doing everything it can to cover everything up as much as possible when caught and tamper with all the evidence? thiago_simoes 1 If you'd like to help our fellow Totallympics member Bruna Moura get to the 2026 Winter Olympics, after her car crash on the way to the 2022 Olympics, every tiny bit of help would be greatly appreciated! Full story and how to help can be found here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunadan 1,103 Posted November 26, 2019 #548 Share Posted November 26, 2019 The difference is that if you randomly pick one of the thousands of Russian athletes, he/she is still way more likely to be innocent than anyone who, in an individual sport where you are not forced to join any team to compete at the highest level, chose to enter in a small (15-20 people) team whose management is known to be involved in doping practices. phelps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heywoodu 13,540 Posted November 26, 2019 #549 Share Posted November 26, 2019 Just now, Dunadan said: The difference is that if you randomly pick one of the thousands of Russian athletes, he/she is still way more likely to be innocent than anyone who, in an individual sport where you are not forced to join any team to compete at the highest level, chose to enter in a small (15-20 people) team whose management is known to be involved in doping practices. I get that, but it's a bit harsh to keep blaming everyone who bans Russia instead of blaming those who are actually to blame for all of this, the Russian authorities. I don't know how much further things should go before at some point one should say "Look, this sucks badly for innocent athletes as well, but this has got to be stopped and resolved." There's not really a 'good' way to go about all it, but just banning athletes who have actually been caught makes the whole Russian system get away with it. thiago_simoes and dodge 1 1 If you'd like to help our fellow Totallympics member Bruna Moura get to the 2026 Winter Olympics, after her car crash on the way to the 2022 Olympics, every tiny bit of help would be greatly appreciated! Full story and how to help can be found here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phelps 6,793 Posted November 26, 2019 #550 Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, heywoodu said: Are people forgetting on purpose there's a huge difference between individuals choosing to cheat (or even teams playing dirty based on some company) and actual state governments having massive doping programs and doing everything it can to cover everything up as much as possible when caught and tamper with all the evidence? no, there's not such difference if... - it's about a private company, yes, but one that makes more money than many States of this fuckin' world... - it's about a company that's doing exactly the same thing that the Russian (and the not yet directly involved Chinese) government is doing...use of (former) secret agents to cover up things and intimidate possible witnesses included (try to find and read the report on that scandal released by the US Senate commission that investigates on it)... -it's about the fact that if it wasn't for someone named Barry Bonds and his audition in front of a commission of the US Senate (another one, not the same of the NOP), the whole BALCO scandal would have been covered up big time... and then we could start speculating also over many other Western Nations (from Spain to Italy, from GBR to Australia) and why not? all Russia's friends (from Belarus to Kazakhstan and so on)... to me, it's really not the case to make any difference between a "private" or a "public" system trying to cheat only because of the different lifestyle and political situation of the most different places in this world... and I'm not trying to take the Russian part in this case...they clearly made what they're accused of and therefore they must pay (and must pay a big, big prize) for that (just, please, save me from the "no Flag farce", as I wrote before)... I'd only like to see a bit more coherence in the people's comments and in the sports/disciplinary authorities decisions...just that (meanwhile right now it seems that there's a clear good party opposed to a clear bad party...and it's definitely not like this)... Edited November 26, 2019 by phelps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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