Athletics 2019 Discussion Thread

[Vojthas 947]

Well, I'm almost sure that this decision will be cancelled in the appeal, but still I'm happy that something was tried to be done with it. For me it doesn't matter that it's natural - the level is too high to call her 100% woman. And I totally do not agree with @Olympian1010 that this is the racist case - it's not because the white women were losing with Semenya (and the two other), because the black women also did. So it's not the case of race. Let's be honest - there are very few situations when white people win the track events against black and usually these whites who do win are extremely talented, except the black ones achieving respective results, who are just talented. And Semenya's case is not a talent thing, it's the nature who gave her more male feature, but there were women, who were disqualified in the past for such things (it even happened that one was forced to resign from sport due to untrue suspections of being a hermaphrodite - look up the name Ewa Kłobukowska in the Wikipedia). And I also do not agree with @Monzanator - yes, it is about the equal rights, that's why I think she should lose the case.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Vojthas

[JoshMartini007 2,203]

In the end the argument wasn't about whether or not she's a woman, it was what does the "woman category" mean in sport. It's a difficult question, this isn't something easily measurable like weight classes and in the end the answer is always going to be a bit arbitrary, but as we are slowly accepting the idea that gender isn't binary it is a question that needs to be answered and unfortunately for Semenya and others like her she's on the wrong side of that line.

[Olympian1010 7,470]

1 hour ago, Monzanator said:

Great decision. Professional sports is not about equal rights, it's about performance. No more Semenya / Niyonsaba  Wambui walk in the park!

So for the sake of excitement, we should just throw out human rights. Noted. 

[Olympian1010 7,470]

27 minutes ago, JoshMartini007 said:

In the end the argument wasn't about whether or not she's a woman, it was what does the "woman category" mean in sport. It's a difficult question, this isn't something easily measurable like weight classes and in the end the answer is always going to be a bit arbitrary, but as we are slowly accepting the idea that gender isn't binary it is a question that needs to be answered and unfortunately for Semenya and others like her she's on the wrong side of that line.

I mean the obvious solution to me is to introduce a third gender category for every event, the open category.

[Dragon 1,695]

13 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

I mean the obvious solution to me is to introduce a third gender category for every event, the open category.

Which means we have 2 borders to decide on - not one. Twice as difficult to decide on,

[Monzanator 3,593]

15 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

So for the sake of excitement, we should just throw out human rights. Noted. 

 

East Africa dominates middle distance running anyway. There is no equality in sports and performance has paramount value. You're talking politics which should be removed from sport under all circumstances.

[Monzanator 3,593]

17 minutes ago, Olympian1010 said:

I mean the obvious solution to me is to introduce a third gender category for every event, the open category.

 

No real chance because men will dominate all the "open" categories anyway. Even women with a higher testosterone level will stand no chance against biological men This much is pretty obvious

[Dragon 1,695]

Couple of points.

1 Nobody is saying that Semenya is not a woman. What they're saying is that she benefits from having some aspects of male biology. We don't exactly how much this amounts to but the best bet is that she has internal testicles that are producing an amount of testosterone close to the normal male levels.

2 To call this a racist decision is nonsense. The IAAF regulations were drafted under the leadership of Papa Diack of the Ivory Coast and are a lot less tough than they were in the past. I can give you the names of British, American, Italian, Dutch, Indian, Romanian, Austrian, Russia, Spanish athletes whose careers were ended before they achieved anything near what Semenya has won. Anyway, if Semenya gets banned, it's highly likely  another African emerges to take over from her.

[Dragon 1,695]

2 hours ago, Vojthas said:

Well, I'm almost sure that this decision will be cancelled in the appeal, but still I'm happy that something was tried to be done with it. For me it doesn't matter that it's natural - the level is too high to call her 100% woman. And I totally do not agree with @Olympian1010 that this is the racist case - it's not because the white women were losing with Semenya (and the two other), because the black women also did. So it's not the case of race. Let's be honest - there are very few situations when white people win the track events against black and usually these whites who do win are extremely talented, except the black ones achieving respective results, who are just talented. And Semenya's case is not a talent thing, it's the nature who gave her more male feature, but there were women, who were disqualified in the past for such things (it even happened that one was forced to resign from sport due to untrue suspections of being a hermaphrodite - look up the name Ewa Kłobukowska in the Wikipedia). And I also do not agree with @Monzanator - yes, it is about the equal rights, that's why I think she should lose the case.

Just want to point this will not be cancelled in the appeal because this was the appeal.

It's possible she takes it to a different court but that decision may only apply to the country the court is based.

Like Zubkov, the bobsleigh driver, being officially the 2014 Olympic champion in Russia but not in the rest of the world

[Vojthas 947]

3 minutes ago, Dragon said:

Just want to point this will not be cancelled in the appeal because this was the appeal.

It's possible she takes it to a different court but that decision may only apply to the country the court is based.

Like Zubkov, the bobsleigh driver, being officially the 2014 Olympic champion in Russia but not in the rest of the world

I read something about Strasbourg Court - can't it cancel CAS as it's based in Switzerland?