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Quasit

Your own Winter Olympic Games Programme

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Nate River    167
21 minutes ago, thiago_simoes said:

 

I wonder if it is the maintenance cost that scares some nations away from the idea of building an ice rink or a bunch of curling sheets, for example. But I agree that ice sports are, in theory, a lot easier to develop in tropical nations. Snow sports, on the other hand, remain impossible to perfect in some nations. I mean, it's not impossible for an ice rink to be built in, say, Brazil, but we just can't buy the Everest and ask for it to be delivered to Rio de Janeiro, you know. :lol:

 

For some sport yes, but there's no reason Brazil couldn't in theory develop good athletes in biathlon / cross country skiing / nordic combined / ski jumping / freestyle skiing with a combination of roller skis, dry slopes and water jumps. While the competition in those sports are on snow you can do almost all of the training in warm weather and then have your elite athletes make the adaptation to the snow.

 

For a lot of winter sports most of the athlete's development actually happens in summer.

 

As for ice sports, if you look at the US for example quite a few of their skating athletes come from warm climates. The best American Ice Hockey player is from Arizona, they've had Olympic gold medalists in speed skating come out of Florida, figure skaters come from all over, some of the best slopestyle athletes in the world grew up skiing on plastic "snow"... It's more of a cultural (if ice hockey was as popular in Brazil as it is in warm weather places like Arizona, Texas and Florida then Brazil would eventually build the infrastructure for it and good players would naturally emerge) and resource problem than a "Brazil can't ever be competitive in winter sports because of the climate" problem.

 

Alternatively get more Canadians to immigrate to Brazil, we'll build ice rinks. I suspect the Curling club in Dallas, Texas (where I live - not exactly a cold climate) has the highest concentration of Canadians in the metroplex, with the exception of the Canadian consulate. There's also a very healthy recreational ice hockey scene here, even though it's over 40C in summer more often than not and it barely ever freezes, all as a result of a professional team setting up shop here.

Edited by Nate River

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De_Gambassi    261
Il y a 1 heure , thiago_simoes a déclaré:

2) Again, like I said before, the Winter Olympics are nothing but a lie, in my opinion. I'm sure a bunch of narrow-minded and delusional people organize the Winter Olympics, so it's not really surprising that the event is mostly ignored by half of the planet, even though it still seeks for integration (we all know it is a lie, but this is how things are branded).

 

 

It's called PR. I'm not sure why you take it for more that it actually is. 

 

Besides, it's not only the Winter Olympics, a good chunk of the summer disiciplines are also a western club + friends (rowing, track cyling, sailing, etc.). Every olympic sports come from the west. A few have taken off globally, most didn't (often for la ack of infrastucture). You may find it sad, unfortunate, but that's not going to change anytime soon and I don't think the IOC is delusional about that. Then, you have PR...

 

If they were really looking for global integration, they would include Kabbadi, not skateboarding.

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Federer91    224

South America has mountains and snow and if they wanted they could improve and challenge in the FIS sports. But the truth is they are not that interested, or have traditions in winter sports. Nothing to do with being excluded from the north countries.

 

Same with ice sports. If they could build many halls for basketball, volleyball, fight sports, they could as well build a few skating rings. But they don't, because there would be hardly any people to want to use it (i reckon, can't be fully sure of course). And that's ok, those countries don't have the culture for winter sports. It's not the faulth of the northern countries that many others don't participate, they just don't want to and not because there are forcefully excluded.

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SalamAkhi    15
il y a 9 minutes, Federer91 a déclaré:

South America has mountains and snow and if they wanted they could improve and challenge in the FIS sports. But the truth is they are not that interested, or have traditions in winter sports. Nothing to do with being excluded from the north countries.

 

Same with ice sports. If they could build many halls for basketball, volleyball, fight sports, they could as well build a few skating rings. But they don't, because there would be hardly any people to want to use it (i reckon, can't be fully sure of course). And that's ok, those countries don't have the culture for winter sports. It's not the faulth of the northern countries that many others don't participate, they just don't want to and not because there are forcefully excluded.

Exactly ... but it's easier to justify it by saying that the big bad western countries don't want you to perform 

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thiago_simoes    186
6 horas atrás, SalamAkhi disse:

Exactly ... but it's easier to justify it by saying that the big bad western countries don't want you to perform 

 

Talk about misinformation (or just being a troll).

 

The only countries in South America where you can seriously practice snow sports are Argentina and Chile. So, tropical nations should send their athletes to other countries because an event with global aspirations do not afford to contemplate realistic weather conditions all around the planet?

This is not a matter about being evil, as much as it is about you being totally ignorant of the facts.

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thiago_simoes    186
7 horas atrás, De_Gambassi disse:

 

It's called PR. I'm not sure why you take it for more that it actually is. 

 

Besides, it's not only the Winter Olympics, a good chunk of the summer disiciplines are also a western club + friends (rowing, track cyling, sailing, etc.). Every olympic sports come from the west. A few have taken off globally, most didn't (often for la ack of infrastucture). You may find it sad, unfortunate, but that's not going to change anytime soon and I don't think the IOC is delusional about that. Then, you have PR...

 

If they were really looking for global integration, they would include Kabbadi, not skateboarding.

 

What? 

 

Judo, Taekwondo and Karate are sports originated in Asia. Badminton and Table Tennis are a lot more popular in Asia. Long distance running in Athletics is all about African nations, and sprint running is all about the Caribbean. Then we have Rugby, which was won by a small nation from Oceania in 2016. Beach Volleyball and Skateboarding are pretty much dominated by the US and Brazil.

It's time for you to realize that there are clear attempts for global integration at the Summer Olympics, but zero effort when it comes to the Winter Olympics. 

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intoronto    365

Every year the amount of nations competing at the Winter Games has gone up, so there is at least that.

 

But yes a sport not contested on snow or ice should not be contested on the Winter program.

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De_Gambassi    261
il y a 6 minutes, thiago_simoes a déclaré:

 

What? 

 

Judo, Taekwondo and Karate are sports originated in Asia. Badminton and Table Tennis are a lot more popular in Asia. Long distance running in Athletics is all about African nations, and sprint running is all about the Caribbean. Then we have Rugby, which was won by a small nation from Oceania in 2016. Beach Volleyball and Skateboarding are pretty much dominated by the US and Brazil.

It's time for you to realize that there are clear attempts for global integration at the Summer Olympics, but zero effort when it comes to the Winter Olympics. 

 

I said "come" (as in orginate from), nothing about the popularity of these sports.

 

But, yes, I forgot about the three asian martial arts. There is a nice pattern about them as there were all included to make the home nation shine (Japan x2 and Korea x1), not so much to reach global integration per se (even, if is as became an arguement to save TWD's ass recently).

 

I don't see a clear patern for global integration here, but a reward for both nations to have became credible business partners.

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thiago_simoes    186
Em 14/01/2018 at 14:53, De_Gambassi disse:

 

I said "come" (as in orginate from), nothing about the popularity of these sports.

 

But, yes, I forgot about the three asian martial arts. There is a nice pattern about them as there were all included to make the home nation shine (Japan x2 and Korea x1), not so much to reach global integration per se (even, if is as became an arguement to save TWD's ass recently).

 

I don't see a clear patern for global integration here, but a reward for both nations to have became credible business partners.

 

Well, you somewhat contradicted your own criticism in the previous sentence. 

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vinipereira    918
On 14/01/2018 at 04:55, Nate River said:

As for ice sports, if you look at the US for example quite a few of their skating athletes come from warm climates. The best American Ice Hockey player is from Arizona, they've had Olympic gold medalists in speed skating come out of Florida, figure skaters come from all over, some of the best slopestyle athletes in the world grew up skiing on plastic "snow"... It's more of a cultural (if ice hockey was as popular in Brazil as it is in warm weather places like Arizona, Texas and Florida then Brazil would eventually build the infrastructure for it and good players would naturally emerge) and resource problem than a "Brazil can't ever be competitive in winter sports because of the climate" problem.

 

You can't be seriously comparing the challenges faced by US athletes to the ones faced by brazilian athletes, as if I can travel to another state and have all the facilities needed to train, etc. You talk about how this is a "cultural" problem, but how can Brazil (or any other tropical country) create a culture of winter sports and general interest if they're so hard to practice? Even if we had some ice rinks and other facilities (not snow, of course, because you know...), you can't simply create a top level athlete from day to night - unless we buy them, which is not the right way to go.

 

I'm not against the Winter Olympics, but in one way or the other, the climate HAS great influence in the results - just take a good look at the nations who will win a medal next month. The point here is that the Winter Olympics can't never be compared to the Summer version regarding reach. That doesn't mean it isn't fun or that they must be cancelled.

 

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vinipereira    918
On 14/01/2018 at 06:55, Federer91 said:

South America has mountains and snow and if they wanted they could improve and challenge in the FIS sports. But the truth is they are not that interested, or have traditions in winter sports. Nothing to do with being excluded from the north countries.

 

Same with ice sports. If they could build many halls for basketball, volleyball, fight sports, they could as well build a few skating rings. But they don't, because there would be hardly any people to want to use it (i reckon, can't be fully sure of course). And that's ok, those countries don't have the culture for winter sports. It's not the faulth of the northern countries that many others don't participate, they just don't want to and not because there are forcefully excluded.

 

Yes, because is very easy to ask to the government: "could you please give us millions of dollars to build these ice facilities of sports nobody has ever heard from and that will cost additional millions to mantain?".

 

I don't blame the countries who have tradition in the Winter Olympics, they're in their own right, but the idea that "summer" nations don't participate in a higher level simply because "they don't want" is a little too much.

 

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De_Gambassi    261
Il y a 13 heures , thiago_simoes a déclaré:

 

Well, you somewhat contradicted your own criticism in the previous sentence. 

 

No, I didn't. I brought a nuance. Please don't think I'm idiot enough to contractid myself in the same post.

 

"I don't see a clear patern for global integration even it has became an arguement to save one sport's ass recently" is a sentence that makes perfect sense. An nuance that may not be that strong anyway (see wrestling exclusion for instance).

 

It's not a critisicim neither, more a matter of fact.

 

No one is denying that the winter olympics are much less global than the summer olympics (I've said so a couple of pages ago), but I'd argue that it doesn't have much to do with willingness, but very much with opportunism.Which is not the same thing.

 

@vinipereira No one is denying that the climate has a great influence on winter olympics results neither. But that it can be bypassed to and extent and that the winter sports culture can be cultivated out of nothing (see Monaco and bobseilg as some kind of an extreme exemple). Do it, don't do it., it's really up to you guys. I personnaly don't care one way or the other.

 

I guess you love your windmills in Brazil.

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