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De_Gambassi

Only one athlete per country: Keep it? Drop it?

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hckosice    695
1 hour ago, De_Gambassi said:

 

 

Is it a self imposed ICF rule, or is it from the IOC ? I don't know that.

 

Imposed from IOC. After Sydney 2000 the situation of canoe slalom was probably the worst, in fact canoe slalom was (is and will be) always under threat, because the organizers for some reason try to build supermodern extremely expensive venues and the same thing happened with Athens 2004, the situation became so dramatic that there signs that the competitions will not even being held few moths before the start of the games, even ICF gave up, but only after immediate strong lobbying from SVK, CZE, FRA, GER and GBR ICF started to "fight" to save the sport. But then had to submit doing some compromises with IOC regarding huge reduction of quotas and in order to still have larger worldwide representation they created this rule 1 boat per country since Beijing...

 

so because of this in Rio 2016 for example the canoe slalom competitions were without olympic champions Štěpanka Hilgertová, the Hochschorner Bros, Elena Kaliská, Emilie Fer world champions Vavřinec Hradílek, Jasmin Schornberg or as you know Boris Neveu etc..

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Bearas    14

I agree that top 4-6 athletes should always be in Olympics regardless of nation, but dismiss those "Chinese or Kazakh athletes that nobody cares for"  (like somebody mentioned here before) and it's no longer the Olympics for me. Let's take such an undeveloped sport as Canoeing slalom and remove those asian/african/small-oceanian quotas and you are left just with a smaller part of Europe + US/CAN/AUS. Is this really an event that deserves to be kept in Olympics then? NO! 

 

And if you disagree -  then why just stop with canoeing slalom? Let's remove all of the continental quotas from basketball and let's have 4 teams from USA, 2 from Spain, 2 from Serbia, 2 from Lithuania and 2 from Argentina, because let's be real - who cares if Africa or Asia sends a team to basketball tournament... And let's have 60 out of 64 archers from South Korea, instead on wasting archery quotas on Slovakia or Finland... And my favourite Table tennis - 100% Chinese NOC, because let' be realistic - all top 180 players in China will be way stronger than any other table tennis player around the world.

 

I understand that I'm overreacting here, I'm just not a fan of isolating poor countries from opportunity to participate at the Olympics.

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De_Gambassi    85
il y a 14 minutes, Bearas a déclaré:

I agree that top 4-6 athletes should always be in Olympics regardless of nation, but dismiss those "Chinese or Kazakh athletes that nobody cares for"  (like somebody mentioned here before) and it's no longer the Olympics for me. 

 

It was me, and I'd say "very few" (at least, their familly will...). I chose these two countries specially because they have other interests during the olympics, and that the media attention that these hopeless cannoeists will get from their home countries will be about non existent.

 

Having, (most of) the top athletes and retaining some international representation is doable anyway, even with only 16 entries. (It will much easier be done with ~20 athletes though).

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phelps    90
32 minutes ago, Bearas said:

I agree that top 4-6 athletes should always be in Olympics regardless of nation, but dismiss those "Chinese or Kazakh athletes that nobody cares for"  (like somebody mentioned here before) and it's no longer the Olympics for me. Let's take such an undeveloped sport as Canoeing slalom and remove those asian/african/small-oceanian quotas and you are left just with a smaller part of Europe + US/CAN/AUS. Is this really an event that deserves to be kept in Olympics then? NO! 

 

And if you disagree -  then why just stop with canoeing slalom? Let's remove all of the continental quotas from basketball and let's have 4 teams from USA, 2 from Spain, 2 from Serbia, 2 from Lithuania and 2 from Argentina, because let's be real - who cares if Africa or Asia sends a team to basketball tournament... And let's have 60 out of 64 archers from South Korea, instead on wasting archery quotas on Slovakia or Finland... And my favourite Table tennis - 100% Chinese NOC, because let' be realistic - all top 180 players in China will be way stronger than any other table tennis player around the world.

 

I understand that I'm overreacting here, I'm just not a fan of isolating poor countries from opportunity to participate at the Olympics.

 

no need to write about those "less mediatic" sports...

just take Athletics and Swimming...with no limitations even for only the top 8 of the world ranking, we would see a repeated USA vs JAM in almost every final (not even talking of podium places, just making the final) of speed events and/or KEN vs ETH in all endurance events for what concerns athletics and a US clean sweep (if not a full final with US athletes only) in at least 50% of swimming disciplines (and I'm keeping myself "fair"...it could be even more)...

 

are all of you sure that this is what you want to see at the Olympic Games?

 

to me, this is not what I like...I like outsiders, small Countries entering at least in a few finals (if not making the podium) and a fair distribution of gold medals (frankly, the idea of having the USA or China winning 90% of gold medals would kepp me well far away from watching the Olympic Games...I'd probably focus only on those 2 or 3 full PRO sports that nothing have to do with the Games and lose my interest in almost any of the wonderful "minor" disciplines I'm in love with right now)...

 

that's why I say "keep those sometimes unfair rules" and not only...even enforce it by forbidding multiple starts for any athlete in sports like rowing or canoeing (and many more) and not allowing more than 2 individual starts in swimming and athletics (and 2 starts overall in Cycling, within all disciplines of the sport)...

 

probably we wouldn't have any "legend" like Phelps or other "sport's Stakanov", but I'm sure that the Games in general would be more "open" and in a certain way more interesting...

Edited by phelps

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De_Gambassi    85
il y a 5 minutes, phelps a déclaré:

 

no need to write about those "less mediatic" sports...

just take Athletics and Swimming...with no limitations even for only the top 8 of the world ranking, we would see a repeated USA vs JAM in almost every final (not even talking of podium places, just making the final) of speed events and/or KEN vs ETH in all endurance events for what concerns athletics and a US clean sweep (if not a full final with US athletes only) in at least 50% of swimming disciplines (and I'm keeping myself "fair"...it could be even more)...

 

are all of you sure that this is what you want to see at the Olympic Games?

 

to me, this is not what I like...I like outsiders, small Countries entering at least in a few finals (if not making the podium) and a fair distribution of gold medals (frankly, the idea of having the USA or China winning 90% of gold medals would kepp me well far away from watching the Olympic Games...I'd probably focus only on those 2 or 3 full PRO sports that nothing have to do with the Games and lose my interest in almost any of the wonderful "minor" disciplines I'm in love with right now)...

 

that's why I say "keep those sometimes unfair rules" and not only...even enforce it by forbidding multiple starts for any athlete in sports like rowing or canoeing (and many more) and not allowing more than 2 individual starts in swimming and athletics (and 2 starts overall in Cycling, within all disciplines of the sport)...

 

Which would either mean:

- that the number of olympics athletes will grow tremendously with the cost that comes with it (if you keep the same number of entrants per event)

- that in many cases, the qualification process will be of much higher standard that the proper event during the olympics.(if you drop the number of entrants per event)

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Jur    21
hace 9 horas, De_Gambassi said:

Doest it makes sense to had one these two gold contenders stay at home to make room for a kazakh or chinese that very few cared about ?

 

Well, I'd rather had a global representation than having europeans +north americans + australians dominating all over the place.

 

And well, you don't care about a chinese athlete the same way they don't care about how many frenchs can win a gold medal.

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Jur    21

Olympics is a global competition, and the fun in the thing is watching athletes for all over the world compiting. For me, it adds more to the event having a girl from Cambodia over 3 hours in marathon than the chance of having the worlds 50 fastest kenyans racing.

 

 

Giving rich countrys the chance of upraising their chances takes the spirits of the games away.

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De_Gambassi    85
il y a 23 minutes, Jur a déclaré:

Giving rich countrys the chance of upraising their chances takes the spirits of the games away.

 

That's very personnal... and quite contrary to the history of the Games. Many would argue that the modern games have allways been about setting the stage for the best of the best to compete.

 

And, can't we just stop pretending that the proposal is about to annihilate global representation from the olympics, when it really is just about moving anywhere between 150 to 200 quotas  (from over 11,000....)

 

Edit: can we also stop prentending the discussion is about slalom and rich countries only, when it is also about combat sports (which are heavely dominated by rich countries as we all know)

Edited by De_Gambassi

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phelps    90
24 minutes ago, De_Gambassi said:

 

Which would either mean:

1- that the number of olympics athletes will grow tremendously with the cost that comes with it (if you keep the same number of entrants per event)

2- that in many cases, the qualification process will be of much higher standard that the proper event during the olympics.(if you drop the number of entrants per event)

 

1- I'm totally in favor of increasing the number of athletes by reducing the number of judges and officials (by throwing off the games most of the sports where only personal and highly interpretable judging is the competition's decider...for instance, no more Trampoline and Rhythmic Gymnastics, no more Synchronized Swimming and Synchronized Diving, absolute "no" to sports like Skateboarding, Surfing and Freestyle BMX, no more Race Walking in Athletics - well, that's for another reason, but the final result is the same), with no increase of expense for the organizers of the Games (actually, with a proper policy for infrastructures - no socalled "cathedrals in the desert" - and less pretentious people around, costs should drop)...

2- In most disciplines it's already the bitter truth...so, it wouldn't change much in most cases...

Edited by phelps

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De_Gambassi    85
il y a 7 minutes, phelps a déclaré:

2- In most disciplines it's already the bitter truth...so, it wouldn't change much in most cases...

 

See, you don't like it neither :p

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phelps    90
4 minutes ago, De_Gambassi said:

 

See, you don't like it neither :p

 

no, I don't like it...but we don't live in a perfect world...:cry::facepalm:

so, if I have to choose the lesser of evils, I still go with the option "keep the limit"...:dunno:

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Jur    21

Well, and we are talking about Slalom, where all nations had the chance of sending a member in every event, unlike other sports, so I don't see the point on really complaining.

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