Speed Skating 2017 - 2018 Discussion Thread

[heywoodu 2,020]

Fast times considering it's on low altitude and with high air pressure.

 

 

Disappointing for M Mulder, who apparently had some issues with one of his skates. 

 

Also, Ter Mors 

 

 

[heywoodu 2,020]

Today's live stream:

https://nos.nl/livestream/2199481-studio-sport-met-kpn-nk-afstanden.html

 

We've got the men's and women's 1000m, the women's 5000m and the men's 10k 

[heywoodu 2,020]

The season's barely underway and we've got ourselves the first fight of the season in Dutch speedskating  

 

It's about the mass start, where the plan was rather clear: Jorrit Bergsma and Arjan Stroetinga would be the two skaters in the Olympic mass start. They're team mates (with trainer Jillert Anema, guy who became 'famous' with an interview on American TV), Bergsma is the guy for the early attack or to keep the pace high for Stroetinga to finish it in the sprint, all fine.

 

However, at the Dutch champs it was Koen Verweij who beat Stroetinga in the sprint, raising all kinds of questions. Verweij has nothing to do with Anema's team and would like to ride the mass start with former team mate Sven Kramer, who still have a good connection (judging by Kramer's "If Koen needs me, I'll be there").

 

The national team coach of course has to make the decisions, but that's going to be tough, because choosing one rider from one team and one from another team doesn't seem like the best idea ever. In fact, Anema has pretty much literally said that if for example Bergsma and Verweij were to team up, there's no way Bergsma would do any work to help Verweij.

 

It all started in the 2014 Olympics, where Bergsma wasn't selected in the first round of the team pursuit. That hurt his little girl's heart, so he refused to be the reserve for the rest of the tournament, which got Kramer, Verweij etc rather angry. That has not healed  

 

https://www.ad.nl/schaatsen/verweij-haalt-oude-schaatswond-open-op-massastart~ae08d399/

[heywoodu 2,020]

Live stream of race 3 of the Dutch Marathon Cup, for those interested. 30 of 125 laps to go, so if you want to see how a mass start should actually be instead of that children's race they call mass start in the World Cup and Olympics, watch

 

 

[phelps 245]

13 hours ago, heywoodu said:

Live stream of race 3 of the Dutch Marathon Cup, for those interested. 30 of 125 laps to go, so if you want to see how a mass start should actually be instead of that children's race they call mass start in the World Cup and Olympics, watch

 

 

very nice...

and I agree at 100% with you about the WC Mass Start races...they're just too short and a real mess...and that's unacceptable for me...

I saw the last 6/7 laps of both women's and men's races...and it was fun...

but, despite not knowing how they normally manage this kind of things, in the girls' event, I have to say that imho Schouten should have been punished somehow for that entry against Lollobrigida during their fight before the final curve...

c'mon! I'm not against some kind of physicality, but she pushed the Italian away with her hands, it wasn't just a shoulder-to-shoulder battle for the inside position...

for sure, under ISU rules, she wouldn't have got the win...

[heywoodu 2,020]

34 minutes ago, phelps said:

 

very nice...

and I agree at 100% with you about the WC Mass Start races...they're just too short and a real mess...and that's unacceptable for me...

I saw the last 6/7 laps of both women's and men's races...and it was fun...

but, despite not knowing how they normally manage this kind of things, in the girls' event, I have to say that imho Schouten should have been punished somehow for that entry against Lollobrigida during their fight before the final curve...

c'mon! I'm not against some kind of physicality, but she pushed the Italian away with her hands, it wasn't just a shoulder-to-shoulder battle for the inside position...

for sure, under ISU rules, she wouldn't have got the win...

 

Which is why ISU rules suck, because that was nothing out of the ordinary at all  

Lollobrigida tried to take her place in an all-or-nothing move, Schouten didn't let her do that, simple as that, it's part of mass start skating. If you're a skater who can't handle that, go do the single distances  

 

[Nate River 115]

This is what the quota situation looks like after the first of four world cups, excluding the time ranking which ads 16 places for the 500m/1000m/1500m, 8 places for the 3000/5000m, 4 places for the 5000/10000m and 2 places for the team pursuit.

 

Max number of athletes is 3 per event for the 500m, 1000m, 1500m and the 3000/5000m while it's 2 per event for the 5000/10000m and the mass start. A country can have up to ten skaters if they qualify in every event, otherwise the limit is eight.

 

Women:

 

	500m	1000m	1500m	3000m	5000m	MS	TP	Max
	1	1				2		4
						1		1
	3	2	3	2	1	2	X	10
	2	1				2		5
	1	1	2	1	1	2		8
						1		1
			1	2		1	X	4
						2		2
	3	3	3	3	2	2	X	10
	1	1						2
	3	1				1	X	5
	1	3	3	3	2	2	X	10
	1	1	1					3
		1	1			1	X	3
	2	2	3	3	2	1		8
						1		1
		1						1
						1		1
	2	2	3	2		2		8

 

Men:

 

	500m	1000m	1500m	5000m	10000m	MS	TP	Max
			1			1		2
			1			1		2
	3	2	1	2	1	1	X	10
						1		1
						2		2
	1	1						2
	1	1		1	1	1		3
	1	1		2	1			5
				2	1	1	X	4
	3	1	2	1		2		8
						1		1
	3	3	1			2	X	9
			1			1		2
	3	3	3	3	2	2		8
				1	1	2	X	4
	1	1	3	2	1	1	X	9
	1	1	2			1		5
	2	3	3	2		1	X	10
						1		1
	2	3	3			2		8

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Nate River

[heywoodu 2,020]

I wouldn't be surprised if 'we' end up with nobody in the women's 500m. It's very likely to have the lowest possible position in the Dutch 'selection matrix' since there's almost no medal chance anyway  

[Nate River 115]

52 minutes ago, heywoodu said:

I wouldn't be surprised if 'we' end up with nobody in the women's 500m. It's very likely to have the lowest possible position in the Dutch 'selection matrix' since there's almost no medal chance anyway  

The Netherlands will definitively get quotas, probably 3. Keep in mind on top of the 20 athletes qualified by world cup ranking there are 16 spots available for the best performers in Calgary and Salt Lake City via the time ranking, it's not that hard for a good speed skating nation to qualify three spots in the 500/1000/1500.

 

The real question is if the Netherlands will send any 500m specialists or if they will simply use the 500m as a warm-up race. My guess is that they won't be sending any 500m specialists.

[heywoodu 2,020]

6 hours ago, Nate River said:

The Netherlands will definitively get quotas, probably 3. Keep in mind on top of the 20 athletes qualified by world cup ranking there are 16 spots available for the best performers in Calgary and Salt Lake City via the time ranking, it's not that hard for a good speed skating nation to qualify three spots in the 500/1000/1500.

 

The real question is if the Netherlands will send any 500m specialists or if they will simply use the 500m as a warm-up race. My guess is that they won't be sending any 500m specialists.

That's what I meant  

 

It all depends on the 'selection matrix' and who will qualify in which distances. 

[Nate River 115]

Olympic time ranking for the women's 5000m and the men's 10000m (top 12, two per country):

 

Women:

1.  Claudia Pechstein - 6:56.60
2.  Ivanie Blondin - 6:57.34
3.  Esmee Visser - 6:58.04
4.  Martina Sáblíková - 6:59.95
5.  Isabelle Weidemann - 7:00.82
6.  Irene Schouten - 7:01.03
7.  Natalia Voronia - 7:02.40
8.  Anna Yurakova - 7:06.33
9.  Nana Tagaki - 7:08.77
10.  Misaki Oshigiri - 7:09.56
11.  Marina Zueva - 7:11.39
12.  Carlijn Schoutens - 7:11.45

Germany, Canada, the Netherlands and the Czech Republic are now guaranteed at least one quota each in the women's 5000m.

 

Men:

1.  Sven Kramer - 12:50.97
2.  Ted-Jan Bloemen - 12:52.64
3.  Davide Ghiotto - 12:53.63
4.  Jouke Hoogeveen - 12:56.62
5.  Alexander Rumyantsev - 12:57.45
6.  Nicola Tumolero - 13:02.11
7.  Sverre Lunde Pedersen - 13:02.42
8.  Patrick Beckert - 13:04.97
9.  Peter Michael - 13:07.20
10.  Moritz Geirseiter - 13:08.87
11.  Seung-Hoon Lee - 13:09.26
12.  Jordan Belchos - 13:10.30

The Netherlands is guaranteed two quotas (the maximum) in the men's 10000m. Canada and Italy are guaranteed at least one quota.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Nate River

[Nate River 115]

This is what the quota situation looks like after the second of four world cups. I exclude the time ranking for all events except the men's 10000m and the women's 5000m.

 

Max number of athletes is 3 per event for the 500m, 1000m, 1500m and the 3000/5000m while it's 2 per event for the 5000/10000m and the mass start. A country can have up to ten skaters if they qualify in every event, otherwise the limit is eight.

 

Women:

	500m	1000m	1500m	3000m	5000m	MS	TP	MAX
	1	1				2		4
				1	1	1		3
	3	2	3	2	2	2	X	10
	2	2	1			2		7
	1	1	1	1	1	2		7
						1		1
						1		1
			1	1	1	1	X	4
				1		2		3
	3	3	3	2	2	2	X	10
	3					1	X	4
	1	3	3	3	2	2	X	10
	1	1	1					3
		1	2			1	X	4
	2	3	3	3	2	1		8
						1		1
		1				1		1
	3	2	2	2	1	2		8

 

Men:

	500m	1000m	1500m	5000m	10000m	MS	TP	MAX
		1				1		2
						1		1
	3	2	2	2	2	1	X	10
						1		1
						2		2
	1	1						2
				1		1		2
	1	2		2	2			7
				3	2	1	X	6
	3	1	3			2		8
						1		1
	3	2	1	1	1	2	X	10
			1			1		2
	3	3	3	3	2	2		8
				1	1	2	X	4
	1	1	3	2	1	1	X	9
	1	1	1			1		4
	2	3	3	1	1	1	X	10
						1		1
	1	3	3			2		8